- Hyperion -

Originally posted by Philosophía
By applying more strength from the other end, than the car can handle.

Jesus Christ, have you never taken a physics lesson in your entire life?

But the force on the other end has to be strong enough to stop it from advancing from the get go. It's not like the planet's crumbled right then...it took time. Then, we have a scene where Cap literally pushed the planet and the universe back (he did this by pushing Earth) which is proof that your analogy of this is wrong. I understand what you are trying to get at but it doesn't apply here. Especially with Earth being the center point. If you push Earth back, the universe goes with it (which is what Cap did).

Originally posted by Newjak
The Earth was hit by infinite force.

I ask you again:
Have you read the comic?
Did you read what the process of incursion was?
When was the Earth hit by infinite force?

Originally posted by carver9
But the force on the other end has to be strong enough to stop it from advancing from the get go. It's not like the planet's crumbled right then...it took time.

Originally posted by carver9
Then, we have a scene where Cap literally pushed the planet and the universe back (he did this by pushing Earth) which is proof that your analogy of this is wrong.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Yes, your force is applied to stop the car from advancing, not Hulk. Hulk keeps advancing, and since you're stopping the car from doing so with your own force [which doesn't have to be equal with Hulk's], it [the car] gets destroyed by being caught between your force and Hulk's. That's what happened to the Earths.

Captain America used omnipotence to do so. The Infinity Gauntlet is in no way comparable to the palms of Hyperion's hands, unless you are an imbecile [but it's you, so...]

Quote from the comic... "by the time the world was ABOUT to touch, he was all that remained. Hyperion held them APART until the world broke...". Again, Hyperion held them apart until the world broke. If you get past using real world physics here, you'll see what this means. Even if it was temporarily, he was the opposing force. Using your logic, the Earth should have crumbled long before hand since an entire Universe was pushing against it. That would be like me pushing against a ball of dirt.

Lol...never said Hyperion was equal to the Gauntlet but the Gauntlet did use earth as the point of contact and pushed the universe back. It's not like Cap warped anything. He simply pushed it back via the Gauntlet.

Originally posted by Philosophía
I read your post and it makes no sense, partly because I'm quite sure you haven't read the comic.

I ask you again:
Have you read the comic?
Did you read what the process of incursion was?
When was the Earth hit by infinite force?

I will use the car example since you seem to grasp it. If Hulk hit the car from behind with all of his strength. The car wouldn't go flying forward. No the back end would crumble causing the car to start to collapse.

It's the same reason why when heroes fly through walls they don't knock buildings over.

I mean if the Hulk consciously decided to only apply enough pressure to push the car yeah your example would work. Or if the build was in space and the hero only gave it a nudge.

In order for that to be the case with Hyperion though the Universe would have had to consciously only push the Earth hard enough to get it moving. That seems laughable to me cause to me if the Universe isn't smart enough to only push with only a portion of it's mass.

Now I haven't read the comics but I have seen the scans. But if you have another opinion of how the Universe was pushing the Earth I would be more than happy to hear it. 🙂

The earth was hit by a force that went into the infinite direction bit by bit, at the bginning it wasn't infinite else the World would have instantly broken down on Hyperion.

Using Carters Car example. If Hulks pushes the Car and Carter is strong enough to push against the car and stop it, the Hulk will just push more till the car gives in and breaks apart around Carter who is then faced with and angry Hulk that pushed through the car.

Or making it simpler. You race a car against a really thick wall and it stops instantly, now a big truck starts to push that car against the wall till it is nothing more than a flat piece of trash.

The feat showed that Hype is more durable than a planet and that he is strong enought to hold two planets apart.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
The earth was hit by a force that went into the infinite direction bit by bit, at the bginning it wasn't infinite else the World would have instantly broken down on Hyperion.

Using Carters Car example. If Hulks pushes the Car and Carter is strong enough to push against the car and stop it, the Hulk will just push more till the car gives in and breaks apart around Carter who is then faced with and angry Hulk that pushed through the car.

Or making it simpler. You race a car against a really thick wall and it stops instantly, now a big truck starts to push that car against the wall till it is nothing more than a flat piece of trash.

The feat showed that Hype is more durable than a planet and that he is strong enought to hold two planets apart.

Originally posted by Newjak
That would once again imply the Universe knew to only apply it's force partially in the beginning. When did the Universe become sentient in that arc? I'm seriously asking if that is something that has been left out.

👆

Lol. That's using real world logic.

Originally posted by Newjak
If the Universe was pushing the Earth then the Earth would have infinite force applied to it since Marvel Universes are supposed to be infinite.

I'll stop here, and point out quite a few mistakes:

a). The 'Universe' isn't a character that's pushing away the Earth. The Earth is inside that Universe. It was the whole Universe that was moving. 'Force' applied on the Earth is a wrong use of the term [we'll get to that in a bit]

b). The Universes aren't moving at infinite speed towards eachother. The Earth doesn't experience infinite acceleration. We see the Earths heading towards eachother in the incursion point - and the speed is not, in any way, infinite.

c). You....don't know physics. I'm sorry, but I do, and very well. The force an object experiences is not soley dependent on the size of the pusher.

If I move a grain of sand of 1 cm/s, and an ant does the same, the force applied on it is not judged based on our respective sizes [me and the ant], but on the speed at which the sand moves - which is 1 cm/s. We're applying the same force.

That's the same way we judge the movement of the Earths, not on the size of what is moving them, but on how fast they're moving.

If I really want to start bragging, I could start pointing out that, like I said, it's the whole Universe moving. Thus there is no space/time reference, since the Universe is space/time and it's not moving through itself.

Originally posted by carver9
Quote from the comic... "by the time the world was ABOUT to touch, he was all that remained. Hyperion held them APART until the world broke...". Again, Hyperion held them apart until the world broke. If you get past using real world physics here, you'll see what this means.

I have a question:
Can I send you and IQ test and you send me the print screen with the results?

Originally posted by Newjak
That would once again imply the Universe knew to only apply it's force partially in the beginning. When did the Universe become sentient in that arc? I'm seriously asking if that is something that has been left out.

Ok, a serious answer. If there is an obstacle and the force that pushes the univers is equal it means the space begins to bend because of the pressure bit by bit, a really simple concept, the pressure is always the same but since the space bends with earth as the obstacle and hype, the force increases over time till it breaks.

So permapush - earth - hype - earth - permapush.

Once the pressure is too big the earth break and they did, which means Hype could never hold two universes apart. If he would be able to hold Universes apart and if it is like the people say that those earths can bear the pressure of a whole universe upon them they would have never broken in the first place, hype would be still there holding them apart, since they broke we KNOW that the pressure was too much at one point and they never resisted a whole universes, not even by a stretch of imagination.

Originally posted by Philosophía
I'll stop here, and point out quite a few mistakes:

a). The 'Universe' isn't a character that's pushing away the Earth. The Earth is inside that Universe. It was the whole Universe that was moving. 'Force' applied on the Earth is a wrong use of the term [we'll get to that in a bit]

b). The Universes aren't moving at infinite speed towards eachother. The Earth doesn't experience infinite acceleration. We see the Earths heading towards eachother in the incursion point - and the speed is not, in any way, infinite.

c). You....don't know physics. I'm sorry, but I do, and very well. The force an object experiences is not soley dependent on the size of the pusher.

If I move a grain of sand of 1 cm/s, and an ant does the same, the force applied on it is not judged based on our respective sizes [me and the ant], but on the speed at which the sand moves - which is 1 cm/s. We're applying the same force.

That's the same way we judge the movement of the Earths, not on the size of what is moving them, but on how fast they're moving.

If I really want to start bragging, I could start pointing out that, like I said, it's the whole Universe moving. Thus there is no space/time reference, since the Universe is space/time and it's not moving through itself.

But, since it's physics day, I might as well inform you about this too:
You're currently on Earth.
Earth's rotation is about 0.5 km/s.
Earth is rotation around the Sun is 35 km/s.
The whole solar system is moving around the galaxy at 230 km/s.
In our local galaxy cluster, ours is moving around 600 km/s.
etc.

Given the you're 'inside' all of these, just as the Earth is inside the moving Universe, tell me, just how much force are you experiencing?

You can have infinite force without having infinite acceleration as long as you have infinite mass(Universe) and an acceleration of greater than 0. The result is the same the Earth would have collapsed as soon as it was hit by such a force.

And the discussion has always been around the Universe pushing the Earth.

As far as I can tell it was never the Universes moving towards each other with the Earths just caught in the middle.

Was is not said in the scan the Earth was the focal point for the Universes? IF so what does the focal point mean. Cause if what you're saying is true and the planets were just moving relative to the Universes they inhabited then once Hyperion stopped the planets from touching then shouldn't the Universes kept going and the planets would have just stopped relative to where they were in their respective Universes?

Cause if they were just free floating aspects not being moved while the Universes were moving then that means no force was being applied to them besides the normal gravitational forces it normally exists under.

Basically what I'm saying is if you are correct then once Hyperion stopped the forward momentum of the Earth's then they should have just stopped in the space they were at until another astrological body slammed into them causing them to once again gain force.

The only way what you're saying makes sense is if the Earth's instantly collapsed once they hit Hyperion. But the scans say he held them back temporarily. Which means greater force would have to been applied after Hyperion temporarily stopped them to make them collapse.

Also as to observing speed of the planets moving. You as good at physics as you say you are should know that speed can be relative. In fact you pretty pointed it out on the scans. So unless we know the exact actual speed the planets were moving trying to infer speed based of the scans is pointless and you know it.

Newjak, before I address the post above:

How could the Earths have experienced infinite force when they were accelerated, since their populations are alive and well when the incursions point meet? Does everybody, on every Earth have infinite durability?

I honestly believe this is the stupidest argument this side of 'Flash beats LT' in the history of KMC.

How could you possibly keep moving in face of blatant illogic?

Originally posted by Philosophía
Newjak, before I address the post above:

How could the Earths have experienced infinite force when they were accelerated, since their populations are alive and well when the incursions point meet? Does everybody, on every Earth have infinite durability?

I honestly believe this is the stupidest argument this side of 'Flash beats LT' in the history of KMC.

How could you possibly keep moving in face of blatant illogic?

True be told none of it really makes sense. Either the planets should have instantly collapsed once they hit Hyperion, or once Hyperion stopped the planets no more force should have been applied and they should have just stayed there, or the planets should have just instantly collapsed once infinite Universal level of force was applied to it.

So I just tend to take it as implied. Hyperion may have temporarily held two Universes apart. Who cares I would still take Superman in a fight for a decent majority over Hyperion cause I know he can do just as stupid and crazy things. Honestly more so considering he gets more chances.

Originally posted by Newjak
Force is Mass X Acceleration

You can have infinite force without having infinite acceleration as long as you have infinite mass(Universe) and an acceleration of greater than 0. The result is the same the Earth would have collapsed as soon as it was hit by such a force.

The Force applied on the object is not a simple multiplication between the mass of the one doing the applying. That's what I've been trying to illustrate with the 'ant/me' example - I'm far larger than an ant, but I can apply the same 'Force' to the grain of sand.

If I were in space, and the moon would hit me at 1km/s, the force hitting me would not be equal to the mass of the moon times 1 km/s, and I would instantly explode. 😂

You're confused about what 'Force' itself is, too.
I would be more hurt by a 5 ton object hitting me at 30 km/h than the moon hitting me at 5 km/h.
That probably blows your mind.

I really recommand you stop this part of the discussion.
This is embarrasing for me to type, and I'm seriously not joking.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Jesus, Newjak, are you serious? That's now how physics work.

The Force applied on the object is not a simple multiplication between the mass of the one doing the applying. That's what I've been trying to illustrate with the 'ant/me' example - I'm far larger than an ant, but I can apply the same 'Force' to the grain of sand.

If I were in space, and the moon would hit me at 1km/s, the force hitting me would not be equal to the mass of the moon times 1 km/s, and I would instantly explode. 😂

You're confused about what 'Force' itself is, too.
I would be more hurt by a 5 ton object hitting me at 30 km/h than the moon hitting me at 5 km/h.
That probably blows your mind.

I really recommand you stop this part of the discussion.
This is embarrasing for me to type, and I'm seriously not joking.

EDIT:

I meant to add compared compared to 5 ton object hitting you.

Originally posted by Newjak
Mostly because it is a comic and comic has a history of ignoring physics all together.

a). Don't talk about physics every again.
b). They don't ignore physics in the sense that you're really trying to get them to. I've literally explained every part.

The fact that:
a). The Earths were clearly shown to be moving at nowhere near infinite velocities towards eachother at the incursion point
b). Their entire populations were alive

..is sufficient proof to refute the ridiculous assumption that they've experienced infinite mass before Hyperion stopped them [at which point they broke from actually experiencing increasing pressure].

So unless you have other evidence that plain old Earths and their entire living population can survive infinite force exerted upon them...

Hyperion holding apart two Universes has been debunked [in fact, I'm not sure why it ever took off in the first place, since this is amazingly, stupendously dumb to begin with].

Originally posted by Philosophía
Let's start from two facts, that I've gathered from this discussions.

a). Don't talk about physics every again.
b). They don't ignore physics in the sense that you're really trying to get them to. I've literally explained every part.

The fact that:
a). The Earths were clearly shown to be moving at nowhere near infinite velocities towards eachother at the incursion point
b). Their entire populations were alive

..is sufficient proof to refute the ridiculous assumption that they've experienced infinite mass before Hyperion stopped them [at which point they broke from actually experiencing increasing pressure].

So unless you have other evidence that plain old Earths and their entire living population can survive infinite force exerted upon them...

Hyperion holding apart two Universes has been debunked [in fact, I'm not sure why it ever took off in the first place, since this is amazingly, stupendously dumb to begin with].

Originally posted by Newjak
Okay say the moon was coming at you at 1km/s and hit you while in space what would be the force you got hit with?

EDIT:

I meant to add compared to 5 ton object hitting you.

Originally posted by Newjak
Okay say the moon was coming at you at 1km/s and hit you while in space what would be the force you got hit with?

Please, don't. Even if you believe it.

Just don't.

But..

If it comes at 1km/s, then that means there's absolutely no acceleration.

F = mass of the moon * 0 acceleration.
F = 0.

Physics!

Like I said, you don't know what force is.

Let's stop this. Seriously. We're getting away from the Hyperion part, which was what's relevant, and I'm pretty sure the evidence is inconclusive...

Hyperion withstood as much as the Earths can withstand, before they break.
Assuming normal Earths, that's an impressive amount, but inferior to Superman. By far.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Don't tell me you think the force it hits you with is greater than that of a 5 ton block coming at you 30 km/h.

Please, don't. Even if you believe it.

Just don't.

But..

If it comes at 1km/s, then that means there's absolutely no acceleration.

F = mass of the moon * 0 acceleration.
F = 0.

Physics!

Like I said, you don't know what force is.

Let's stop this. Seriously. We're getting away from the Hyperion part, which was what's relevant, and I'm pretty sure the evidence is inconclusive...

Hyperion withstood as much as the Earths can withstand, before they break.
Assuming normal Earths, that's an impressive amount, but inferior to Superman. By far.