Bardock VS Tien · Anime 'Versus' Forum

juggerman Senior Member

Originally posted by Kadan
❌ Akira didn't help with much in GT, he didn't help with its story, or anything like that, he only helped with (some of) the drawings.

He did more than that but if he also helped with Pikkon as Galan said than that's another point to consider. As I said before, Akira can help create non canon things but they are still non canon.

If Akira made "Broly 4, Shit's about to go DOWN!!" would that make Broly a canon character all of a sudden? Nope. A sequel for a non canon character would still be non canon unless the man says otherwise. He never did.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

The manga and/or official press releases from Akira is what makes characters and events canon. If the material in question wasn't mentioned or shown in one of the former, it defaults to non-canon/filler. Simple. That is why 'Super kaio kens' and Pikkon are non-canon, even though Akira had a hand in their creation.

Conversely, the only reason Frieza killing Bardock and destroying planet Vegeta in BFoG is canon, is because those events were explicitly referenced in the manga.

carver9 Senior Member

Originally posted by juggerman
Akira can help with non canon projects. See GT

Why wouldn't it be canon though? If Akira produced it and came up with/assisted with the project, why wouldn't it be canon material?

carver9 Senior Member

Originally posted by Galan007
The manga and/or official press releases from Akira is what makes characters and events canon. If the material in question wasn't mentioned or shown in one of the former, it defaults to non-canon/filler. Simple. That is why 'Super kaio kens' and Pikkon are non-canon, even though Akira had a hand in their creation.
Conversely, the only reason Frieza killing Bardock and destroying planet Vegeta in BFoG is canon, is because those events were explicitly referenced in the manga.

I understand this but if Akira agreed/added parts to the anime, stories that came straight from the manga, why wouldn't it be canon? Akira DID the anime, including the filler. I see no reason on it not being canon. Including Pikkon.

juggerman Senior Member

Because the original canon source is the manga. Everything in it is canon. Things created outside of it are not unless he says they are. It's weird I know.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by carver9
I understand this but if Akira agreed/added parts to the anime, stories that came straight from the manga, why wouldn't it be canon? Akira DID the anime, including the filler. I see no reason on it not being canon. Including Pikkon.

Akira wrote every single word on every single page of the manga--that's why it is the *most* canon DB material. Conversely, it was Toei Animation that adapted the anime from Akira's manga. Granted, Akira helped with concepts for the anime here and there, but he didn't sit down and write every minute of every episode--ergo why the filler-scenes/characters that do not coincide with the manga are non-canon. Manga takes precedence, always.

It's a lot like the Star Wars canonicity tiers used to be. The SW films=the *most* canon material, as they were explicitly created/adapted by George Lucas' hand. If ANY other SW material(ie. novels, comics, guidebooks, etc.) contradicted what we saw happen in any of the films, then the aforementioned became non-canon by default--even if Lucas himself had a hand in their creation.

naurtoisbeast Restricted

Originally posted by Kadan
He only did a few drawings here and there for GT.
I'm pretty sure he actually helped with the story for EOB, which makes it a higher level canon then GT anyway.
Its only N-canon when Akira contradicts it or says so
Edit. Could be wrong though. 'Shrug.'

i think bardock will win here

juggerman Senior Member

Akira released a new chapter that centers around Bardock. That solidifies the fact that Bardock: Father of Goku was indeed non canon

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by juggerman
Akira released a new chapter that centers around Bardock.

Huh?

SSJGGogeta Senior Member

Originally posted by Galan007
Huh?

Yeah, sounds fishy.

Mind posting it Juggerman? Just the first I've heard of it.

juggerman Senior Member

I haven't read but i saw a review of it. Haven't you heard that he was making a new that would finally show Goku's mom? I'll look for something on it

SSJGGogeta Senior Member

Originally posted by juggerman
I haven't read but i saw a review of it. Haven't you heard that he was making a new that would finally show Goku's mom? I'll look for something on it

No. From what I heard, it was a rumor about the new DBZ movie in 2015. They're apparently going to introduce Goku's mother, but that still doesn't have anything to do with the Bardock episode.

Lek Kuen Ti Lun

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
No. From what I heard, it was a rumor about the new DBZ movie in 2015. They're apparently going to introduce Goku's mother, but that still doesn't have anything to do with the Bardock episode.

Goku's mother was introduced in a manga he writes within the same universe iirc. Someone posted the scan a few months back.

this is an english version I just couldn't be assed to look it up and read it

Jmanghan Senior Member

Tien kept up with Trunks for a bit, and might've stalemated him, were it not for Trunks turning SSJ: watch?v=tF99jsVww2w

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Oh you're talking about Gine, from 'Dragon Ball Minus'. Yeah, she was revealed to be Bardock's mate, and mother of Goku/Raditz, but I'm not sure how that story would de-canonize BFoG as a whole..? 😕

Either way, the only part of that film that is 100% canon, is the part where Frieza destroys Bardock, planet Vegeta, and nearly all the other Saiyans(the Dragon Ball Minus issue reconfirms this fact for us, actually.) Everything else I take with a grain of salt, though.

juggerman Senior Member

I'm hindered due to being at work and them having blocks up but according to the review I saw, this new chapter completely disregards BFoG. Some of the discrepancies are:

Bardock "senses" Frieza is up to no good but has no visions.
Vegeta is off on another planet with Raditz when Frieza calls every Saiyan back to Planet Vegeta but they ignore the order which spares them
Bardock steals a pod and launches Goku off into space, to a seemingly unknown location, out of fear for his life(due to the feeling that Frieza was up to no good)
Bardock has no run in with Dodoria nor does his team.
I don't even think he had a team at all

And also Frieza knows full well about the Super Saiyan God Legend.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Oh yeah, the story as a whole definitely contradicts/de-canonizes most of the film--I just thought you guys were implying that the introduction of Gine is what somehow rendered BFoG non-canon(not that I thought it was canon to begin with, mind you.) My bad.

Anyway, here's the entire Viz-translated 'Dragon Ball Minus' short, for anyone who is interested:
http://i.imgur.com/lldwUfH.png
http://i.imgur.com/ZH5yj1H.png
http://i.imgur.com/VRGZ6ND.png
http://i.imgur.com/AwbJnXC.png
http://i.imgur.com/QWl7zxn.png
http://i.imgur.com/1piZn68.png
http://i.imgur.com/p3s5OJH.png
http://i.imgur.com/KUs0Mps.png

juggerman Senior Member

Nice, thanks. I'll chack this out when I get home

SSJGGogeta Senior Member

Originally posted by Galan007
Oh yeah, the story as a whole definitely contradicts/de-canonizes most of the film--I just thought you guys were implying that the introduction of Gine is what somehow rendered BFoG non-canon(not that I thought it was canon to begin with, mind you.) My bad.
Anyway, here's the entire Viz-translated 'Dragon Ball Minus' short, for anyone who is interested:
http://i.imgur.com/lldwUfH.png
http://i.imgur.com/ZH5yj1H.png
http://i.imgur.com/VRGZ6ND.png
http://i.imgur.com/AwbJnXC.png
http://i.imgur.com/QWl7zxn.png
http://i.imgur.com/1piZn68.png
http://i.imgur.com/p3s5OJH.png
http://i.imgur.com/KUs0Mps.png

Awesome, thanks for posting that.

Yeah though, I'm surprised that it was that different from the BfoG special. Do you know when it came out, by any chance?

Lek Kuen Ti Lun

April 4th (japan) and 7th(english) of this year.