Look, as you stated Rambo is a beast, an utter killing machine. Thing is, McCall is the same. Just way WAY smarter.
It's a durability feat, regardless of how many action films it's appeared in.
The team who raided the Home Mart were military trained, especially Teddy, who is stated to be SPETZNAZ
You need to rewatch the movie when you get the chance. He's engulfed in the flames and walks out.
First off, that Burmese dude was small. Second off, as stated, Bob's hung with dudes bigger than himself.
You need to rewatch that fight. Dude tanked the stab wound to the neck better than the fat guy from Ninja Assassin. And LOL you bring up First Blood, because Rambo was temporarily getting his ass restrained by hick cops whereas McCall would have killed them in 19 seconds flat and not even have to run off to the woods (where, based on how good his improvised guerrilla warfare was in a home depot, he would have definitely raped them) . Same goes for R2, as McCall's clearly got the guerrilla skills to replicate Rambo's traps. And McCall would have definitely owned that SPETSNAZ team from R3. And LOL, stealth is Rambo's second nature? Equalizer TELEPORTS like Michael Myers. And as far as killing, McCall clearly has an instinctive talent for it, no matter what's on hand.
Prove McCall couldn't replicate those feats, especially given his above-stated teleportation-level stealth, mastery of CQB of any form, and guerrilla warfare skills so good and instinctive refined that he can use them in a home depot.
Originally posted by Lestov16
Look, as you stated Rambo is a beast, an utter killing machine. Thing is, McCall is the same. Just way WAY smarter.It's a durability feat, regardless of how many action films it's appeared in.
The team who raided the Home Mart were military trained, especially Teddy, who is stated to be SPETZNAZ
You need to rewatch the movie when you get the chance. He's engulfed in the flames and walks out.
First off, that Burmese dude was small. Second off, as stated, Bob's hung with dudes bigger than himself.
You need to rewatch that fight. Dude tanked the stab wound to the neck better than the fat guy from Ninja Assassin. And LOL you bring up First Blood, because Rambo was temporarily getting his ass restrained by hick cops whereas McCall would have killed them in 19 seconds flat and not even have to run off to the woods (where, based on how good his improvised guerrilla warfare was in a home depot, he would have definitely raped them) . Same goes for R2, as McCall's clearly got the guerrilla skills to replicate Rambo's traps. And McCall would have definitely owned that SPETSNAZ team from R3. And LOL, stealth is Rambo's second nature? Equalizer TELEPORTS like Michael Myers. And as far as killing, McCall clearly has an instinctive talent for it, no matter what's on hand.
Prove McCall couldn't replicate those feats, especially given his above-stated teleportation-level stealth, mastery of CQB of any form, and guerrilla warfare skills so good and instinctive refined that he can use them in a home depot.
Intelligence won't help him here, he doesn't have prep time. Rambo is a one man army, he doesn't need intelligence, not when he can just shit stomp everyone if he doesn't feel like hunting them down.
Well okay then, Rambo is superhuman too. Works for me.
Great. Rambo eats SPETSNAZ for breakfast. That Home Mart would have been a cake walk for Rambo.
You're the one who needs to rewatch it, because I saw it last night at the cinema. LOL at you actually thinking Robert was burning in that scene.
He maybe small, but that doesn't mean McCall can replicate that feat. Rambo was 210 lbs of jungle muscle, McCall had a pot belly.
There soldiers who have fought even when stabbed and shot multiple times, doesn't mean they were superhuman. That bearded guy had an impressive showing, but he wasn't superhuman. Rambo handled them just fine when he wanted to, and he didn't want to kill them. Also, Rambo was clearly mentally unstable in First Blood. Look, just because McCall made some home alone traps on his home turf doesn't mean he can suddenly become a human Predator like Rambo. Until we see him in a jungle setting we can't assume he's as good as Johnny. It took him much more time and effort to kill those Russians than it did Rambo.
You've got this backwards, you're the one who has to prove McCall can replicate Rambo's feats. Just because he set some traps in a place he's intricately familiar with doesn't mean he's good as Rambo, who's a total animal even in unfamiliar territory.
You have to understand, McCall not only has better 21st century guerrilla warfare training than Rambo's Nam-era training, but also has an OCD-level of observation and intelligence that rivals Bourne, and such instinctive skill in guerrilla warfare that he can deploy it in any terrain, including a home depot. Again, he stealth-teleports like a slasher villain, beats down rooms full of people in seconds (whereas Rambo got held down by hick cops), and to again stress, is way WAY smarter than Rambo. His instinctive level and knowledge of combat clearly exceeds Rambo's.
And my entire quote about gun feats is correct, not just a snippet. Not to mention the few times McCall used a gun, he was dead on accurate with it, including a nail gun, and he immediately recognizes brand models and knows how to snatch them out of people's hands, so he's definitely trained with them. Rambo just has more feats because McCall was so badass that didn't even need guns. Remember what Leon about a pro getting closer to their client?
McCall is in his 50s, so his training isn't much newer than Rambo's. Also, he was trained to be an operative, for covert operations, to infiltrate, to assassinate. Rambo was trained for only one thing, to kill. Rambo has killed SPETSNAZ with less effort than McCall, Rambo has killed much more men than McCall, Rambo has pretty much soloed armies. It's what he does, McCall has OCD, Rambo has bloodthirst. Stop it with this stealth-teleport nonsense, we both know it wasn't like that, and those hicks only lived because Rambo let them live. He's a hero, not a cop-killer. He busted out as soon as he wanted to.
Just the one feat in Rambo 4 where Rambo draws his gun and kills 3 pirates before they can even react shit all over everything Robert did with a gun, it's no contest.
CIA operatives don't train to make nooses and trip-wire traps. That's jungle warfare training, which McCall improvised. because again, he's got pretty much Bourne-level intelligence.
You are aware that CIA PMOO and NOC operatives are typically recruited from Tier-One special operations groups, the best of the best, so if your statement of him being an operative is true, that means he must have been (and given by his CQB skill definitely was) tier-one beforehand, which is WAY better than any of the Nam-era Green Beret training Rambo received.
That was a completely different environment and he didn't have to simultaneously perform a mass hostage rescue. He only has a higher killcount because of the weapons he used and the allies he's had. Stop with this "solo-ed armies" nonsense. Karen rebels had to bail him out before everybody got overpowered. McCall murders rooms of armed people in CQB with ease, to the point he doesn't even need a gun, so his penchant for death clearly exceeds Rambo, and LOL "they only lived because he wanted them to"
Rambo struggling in H2H against hick cops (clearly slower than McCall):
YouTube video
McCall beating down room of armed people with ease:
YouTube video
And to address the "he let them live", do you not remember the extortionist cops who he easily beat the manshit out of when they attempted to arrest him? McCall can be non-lethal when he wants and is still better at CQB than McCall, which suggests overall better combat instinct. Did you read what I said about Leon? Do you not remember the quote?
And yes, it was stealth-teleportation straight out of a horror film. He was there one second and gone the next. You need to rewatch the movie apparently.
McCall has slo-mo vision and hyper-observation, quickdrew on a guy in the midst of killing another in CQB, the accuracy to hit specific joints, and the speed and reflexes to snatch the guns from people's hands, not to mention, as stated above, Tier-1 special forces training that exceeds Rambo's. As stated he is Leon-like in that he is so badass he doesn't need guns, but he's clearly got great marksmanship, knowledge, and skill with them.
Originally posted by Lestov16
CIA operatives don't train to make nooses and trip-wire traps. That's jungle warfare training, which McCall improvised. because again, he's got pretty much Bourne-level intelligence.You are aware that CIA PMOO and NOC operatives are typically recruited from Tier-One special operations groups, the best of the best, so if your statement of him being an operative is true, that means he must have been (and given by his CQB skill definitely was) tier-one beforehand, which is WAY better than any of the Nam-era Green Beret training Rambo received.
That was a completely different environment and he didn't have to simultaneously perform a mass hostage rescue. He only has a higher killcount because of the weapons he used and the allies he's had. Stop with this "solo-ed armies" nonsense. Karen rebels had to bail him out before everybody got overpowered. McCall murders rooms of armed people in CQB with ease, to the point he doesn't even need a gun, so his penchant for death clearly exceeds Rambo, and LOL "they only lived because he wanted them to"
Rambo struggling in H2H against hick cops (clearly slower than McCall):And to address the "he let them live", do you not remember the extortionist cops who he easily beat the manshit out of when they attempted to arrest him? McCall can be non-lethal when he wants and is still better at CQB than McCall, which suggests overall better combat instinct. Did you read what I said about Leon? Do you not remember the quote?
And yes, it was stealth-teleportation straight out of a horror film. He was there one second and gone the next. You need to rewatch the movie apparently.
McCall has slo-mo vision and hyper-observation, quickdrew on a guy in the midst of killing another in CQB, the accuracy to hit specific joints, and the speed and reflexes to snatch the guns from people's hands, not to mention, as stated above, Tier-1 special forces training that exceeds Rambo's. As stated he is Leon-like in that he is so badass he doesn't need guns, but he's clearly got great marksmanship, knowledge, and skill with them.
You're overestimating his intelligence. He's smart, but not that smart. Nikolai saw right through him.
It doesn't really matter, what matters is the skills and feats they displayed on-screen and Rambo's are better when it comes to killing and hunting.
Oh, stop with this help bullshit. He was doing fine before the rebels showed up. And I ask you again, who helped him when he wrecked the Vietnamese troops in Rambo 2 or when he made fools of the cops and National Guard in FB despite holding back?
If you think beating them = struggling then I have news for you. The fact that Rambo didn't kill them or that he wasn't as flashy as McCall doesn't mean much. Not when Rambo has shown considerable skills of his own and is physically on another level compared to Robert. Hell, that big Russian had McCall beat and Rambo has better feats than him. I remember Leon just fine and it doesn't matter in this fight.
The fact that McCall struggled with 3-4 SPETSNAZ guys on his home turf while Rambo stealth-wrecked a greater amount of Russians in a cave is telling enough despite your teleport nonsense. You can bet your ass Rambo would have killed Nikolai and his buddies in that construction site instead of retreating. Also, Rambo rescued those hostages in Rambo 2 on his own, while McCall needed the help of Ralphy to save his friends, a fact you've been avoiding.
Re-watch the movie? Funny coming from a guy who actually believed McCall was on fire during the oil-tanker scene.
Well, his training may exceed Rambo's, but who cares? Rambo has superior feats. Snatching Andre's gun is as impressive as drawing and gunning down 3 guys before they can even react? LOL. Rambo's gun kills are simply superior in both quantity and quality. He's an Angel of Death with a machine gun.
Nicolai was clearly smarter than your average mobster (ex-SPETSNAZ and Pushkin's Winston Wolfe) and even after that McCall steamrolled him and his crew
Rambo's skills are limited to survivalist jungle guerrilla warfare, whereas McCall's extends from the jungle to the city. McCall is clearly more skilled and based on his speed in delivering death, is a more instinctive killer
He was not doing fine. They were about to be overpowered. McCall would have owned those hick cops, and he's clearly skilled in jungle guerrilla warfare so he would have probably killed those Viet Cong as well, probably with greater ease since he's WAY smarter than Rambo and so good at guerrilla warfare he can deploy it in a home depot.
LOL now McCall is just being "flashy" instead of you just admitting that he's way more skilled in H2H combat. That big Russian didn't have McCall beat...or else he would have beat him. McCall kicked his ass, even with a cauterized bullet wound.
LOL McCall didn't struggle. He owned everybody in that Home Mart except for the big Russian. And 3-4? Downplay much? And you're saying Rambo would have went to construction site and let his friends die at the Home Mart? LOL at "retreating". And Ralphie didn't help him rescue the hostages. They were already freed and Ralphie came back to help McCall up to his feet, who was down only because he got stabbed in the leg numerous times during the fight with the big Russian, and even after that he was still owning the mercs.
He was engulfed in the flames. You need to rewatch the movie.
McCall's such an Angel of Death that he's not even reliant on a gun to kill people. That's what you don't get. His killer instinct is so refined he doesn't even need to bring a weapon to a fight. His combat skillset is way more finely honed than Rambo's, combined with a Bourne-level intellect that all in all makes him way deadlier than Rambo.
Originally posted by Lestov16
Nicolai was clearly smarter than your average mobster (ex-SPETSNAZ and Pushkin's Winston Wolfe) and even after that McCall steamrolled him and his crewRambo's skills are limited to survivalist jungle guerrilla warfare, whereas McCall's extends from the jungle to the city. McCall is clearly more skilled and based on his speed in delivering death, is a more instinctive killer
He was not doing fine. They were about to be overpowered. McCall would have owned those hick cops, and he's clearly skilled in jungle guerrilla warfare so he would have probably killed those Viet Cong as well, probably with greater ease since he's WAY smarter than Rambo and so good at guerrilla warfare he can deploy it in a home depot.
LOL now McCall is just being "flashy" instead of you just admitting that he's way more skilled in H2H combat. That big Russian didn't have McCall beat...or else he would have beat him. McCall kicked his ass, even with a cauterized bullet wound.
LOL McCall didn't struggle. He owned everybody in that Home Mart except for the big Russian. And 3-4? Downplay much? And you're saying Rambo would have went to construction site and let his friends die at the Home Mart? LOL at "retreating". And Ralphie didn't help him rescue the hostages. They were already freed and Ralphie came back to help McCall up to his feet, who was down only because he got stabbed in the leg numerous times during the fight with the big Russian, and even after that he was still owning the mercs.
He was engulfed in the flames. You need to rewatch the movie.
McCall's such an Angel of Death that he's not even reliant on a gun to kill people. That's what you don't get. His killer instinct is so refined he doesn't even need to bring a weapon to a fight. His combat skillset is way more finely honed than Rambo's, combined with a Bourne-level intellect that all in all makes him way deadlier than Rambo.
No doubt that Nikolai was smart, but since McCall failed to outsmart him we have no reason assume Robert's super-intelligent.
Speed at delivering death? LOL I redirect you back to Rambo's cave showing vs. McCall's Home Mart performance. Or his pirates showing. Both put McCall to shame.
Except he was. He beat them up and left the building. That's what was shown on screen. Seriously man, this is just silly. That's a stupid assumption, McCall hasn't demonstrated anything in relation to jungle warfare, there's no reason to assume he'd be as good as Rambo.
He is flashy, though. The bearded Russian was about to finish him before McCall got his hands on the glass. Clearly McCall is at a disadvantage against bigger and stronger opponents like him or Rambo. Especially since Rambo's physical feats shit all over McCall. There's no glass to save McCall this time.
Didn't struggle? Lel. It took him 15 minutes to kill those guys, and he got injured. And on his home turf, too. Rambo, on the other hand, walked all over the SPETSNAZ with impunity. Ralphie did help him, he lead the hostages out, remember? Also, McCall used him as bait against Nikolai, something Rambo wouldn't have needed to do. When I said the construction site I meant earlier in the movie when they chased him from the diner. Rambo would have killed them all right there, but McCall chose to flee instead.
Mate, are you trolling me? Do you seriously believe McCall was on fire in that scene where he was walking AWAY from the explosion?
I don't care how reliant he is on a gun. The fact is that there is a gun fight in this match and Rambo's gun skills are superior, as are his hunting skills. Deal with it. The only real debate is H2H, but that's still Rambo's fight to lose.
McCall did outsmart him. Numerous times.
You don't get it. McCall's so good at guerrilla warfare that he can use it IN A HOME DEPOT. Given McCall's speed and accuracy with guns when we see it, it's probable to assume he could pull off those headshots. He just never found himself in the circumstances to do so because he's a better killer than Rambo and doesn't need guns to kill foes.
Nope. Karen rebels had to save Rambo's ass before he and the merc squad who was HELPING him got overpowered and crushed. McCall actually solo-ed everybody in that Home Mart. And nooses and trip-wire traps aren't jungle warfare? LOL?
LOL at "disadvantage". Only reason McCall probably struggled is because he got shot, and even then he BEAT him, so even the "disadvantage" of being shot and fighting a bigger and superhumanly durable opponent weren't enough to defeat McCall. And LOL "Rambo's stats shit on McCall". Rambo was briefly getting overpowered by hick cops who McCall would have owned in seconds.
Yep, keep forgetting that he also had to perform a mass hostage rescue, that's why it took so long. Did Rambo also have to rescue hostages during his SPETSNAZ battle? Not to mention Rambo had way more cover and prep time. Ralphie leading out the hostages is not"helping" when McCall is the one who freed them. As far as being bait, it was just easier to do, not to mention McCall had a massive leg injury from the knife fight, and was still setting traps. As far as the construction site scene, McCall was looking to take down Pushkin's entire operation, not just kill some low-level thugs, and was gathering intelligence instead of ending everybody right there, since, again, he's WAY smarter than Rambo.
Did I say he was on fire like GR's skull? No. I said he was engulfed in the massive flames, and walked out of them, which is what happened. He walks out of the fire. Rewatch the scene.
Nope. The few times McCall used guns, he was dead-on accurate with them, and he's clearly has extremely fast reflexes, so while he may not performed the exact same shot Rambo did, he's clearly got the capacity to. As far as hunting skills go, you need to rewatch the Home Mart scene. McCall was picking them off like Michael Myers, including undeniable stealth teleportation. Obviously McCall owns the H2H scenario.
Originally posted by Lestov16
McCall did outsmart him. Numerous times.You don't get it. McCall's so good at guerrilla warfare that he can use it IN A HOME DEPOT. Given McCall's speed and accuracy with guns when we see it, it's probable to assume he could pull off those headshots. He just never found himself in the circumstances to do so because he's a better killer than Rambo and doesn't need guns to kill foes.
Nope. Karen rebels had to save Rambo's ass before he and the merc squad who was HELPING him got overpowered and crushed. McCall actually [b]solo-ed
everybody in that Home Mart. And nooses and trip-wire traps aren't jungle warfare? LOL?LOL at "disadvantage". Only reason McCall probably struggled is because he got shot, and even then he BEAT him, so even the "disadvantage" of being shot and fighting a bigger and superhumanly durable opponent weren't enough to defeat McCall. And LOL "Rambo's stats shit on McCall". Rambo was briefly getting overpowered by hick cops who McCall would have owned in seconds.
Yep, keep forgetting that he also had to perform a mass hostage rescue, that's why it took so long. Did Rambo also have to rescue hostages during his SPETSNAZ battle? Not to mention Rambo had way more cover and prep time. Ralphie leading out the hostages is not"helping" when McCall is the one who freed them. As far as being bait, it was just easier to do, not to mention McCall had a massive leg injury from the knife fight, and was still setting traps. As far as the construction site scene, McCall was looking to take down Pushkin's entire operation, not just kill some low-level thugs, and was gathering intelligence instead of ending everybody right there, since, again, he's WAY smarter than Rambo.
Did I say he was on fire like GR's skull? No. I said he was engulfed in the massive flames, and walked out of them, which is what happened. He walks out of the fire. Rewatch the scene.
Nope. The few times McCall used guns, he was dead-on accurate with them, and he's clearly has extremely fast reflexes, so while he may not performed the exact same shot Rambo did, he's clearly got the capacity to. As far as hunting skills go, you need to rewatch the Home Mart scene. McCall was picking them off like Michael Myers, including undeniable stealth teleportation. Obviously McCall owns the H2H scenario. [/B]
Not really, Nikolai saw right through his attempt at deceiving them at his place.
😐 Mate, guerrilla warfare is 1000x in a home depot. Especially if you know the layout inside and out. It's not probable, not at all. He doesn't need guns? Then why did he used that nail gun against Nikolai? Why not just go H2H? Oh, yeah because he would have been shot to shit.
Oh really? Because I distinctly recall Rambo saving the mercs and rape stomping the army. The Karen rebels helped, but they weren't needed. The mercs and rebels had like 20 kills at best, Rambo had 80+. Again, Rambo soloed the Vietnam army in Rambo 2 and the was wrecking the National Guard in First Blood. LOL, who cares about McCall killing 5 Russians in a drawn out sequence when Rambo has stomped more of them in a lesser amount of time under more difficult conditions?
Guess what?,Rambo has also been shot and by a 50 cal. machine gun, it barely slowed him down. McCall seals his wounds with a blow torch, Rambo just cauterizes them with f*ucking gun powder. That guy wasn't superhuman, he just had good damage soak, less than Rambo's though. If McCall has so much trouble against an old, fat Russian imagine what lean mean killing machine like Rambo will do to him. Rambo didn't get overpowered by the hicks, he beat the shit out of them while holding back.
Yeah, Rambo performed a mass rescue in Rambo 2, only instead of fighting five guys he had to take on a small army. And he won, even though the US government abandoned him. Ralphie did help him no matter how much you try to downplay it. If McCall could have taken down Nikolai without endangering his friend he would have done it. As far as the construction scene, the smartest thing to do would have been to kill the others and take Nikolai for interrogation, instead he fled, because he knew he couldn't take them. Rambo would have massacred them.
Re-watch the movie, bro. Nothing like that happens. McCall walks away from an explosion just like every badass does. Stop trying to make shit up, if has so durable to fire he wouldn't have been able to close his wound with a blow torch.
Just because he's got accuracy doesn't mean he's got Rambo-level of gun skill. Again, show me a feat equal to Rambo's ownage of those 3 pirates. Show me McCall mowing down dozens of enemy troops with easy. The Home Mart scene isn't nearly as impressive as you say. He was on his home turf, he was facing fewer men, he knew the layout, he had an entire arsenal of tools to choose from, and he still needed much more time and got injured. Rambo takes down more bad guys with just mud and a knife as his tools. We have a direct comparison of them facing SPETSNAZ, Rambo was much more efficient.