Any respect thread on SWTOR forums should not be considered a respect thread.
www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t593826.html : Here is one good ol' Bantha made.
Any respect thread on SWTOR forums should not be considered a respect thread.
www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t593826.html : Here is one good ol' Bantha made.
But yeah, thoughts on various forum boards:
SWTOR Forums: Takes everything to an extreme in terms of feats.
ComicVine: Takes everything to an extreme2 in terms of feats.
StarWarsForums: Takes everything to an extreme73874 in terms of feats.
KillerMovies: Has a nice balance of wankers and haters in all areas.
IIRC they dropped from a carrier without parachutes. On another occasion, Aryn leapt off of a building that was nearly a hundred meters tall.
Other than that, she has used a Force Push that was able to topple two Alderaanian statues, broke Malgus's telekinetic hold on his lightsaber, and she's thrown a 6 car cargo tram. She has a few other showings, but those are the standouts.
I believe she also had some pretty ridiculous sense feats too.
She also has some pretty wild speed feats, and dueled evenly with Darth Malgus, for what it's worth.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
But yeah, thoughts on various forum boards:
SWTOR Forums: Takes everything to an extreme in terms of feats.
ComicVine: Takes everything to an extreme2 in terms of feats.
StarWarsForums: Takes everything to an extreme73874 in terms of feats.
KillerMovies: Has a nice balance of wankers and haters in all areas.
I don't know the other forums well enough, but I must say that to me this one seems more varied in terms of opinions compared to CV.
Originally posted by ILS
He lost to Savage because his mask was ripped off, not through technical skill. He dueled evenly with Savage for the most part. It isn't a low showing for Ventress just because you say so. It's not era bias - I'm just saying, Malgus being the best of his era doesn't necessarily make him as good as Koon because Koon fought during a time of superior duelists. I have no preference based on era. Maul's opinion certainly holds weight seeing as Sidious brought him close to the Jedi temple and had him studying prominent Jedi throughout his training, and Maul is a better duelist than Malgus undoubtedly.
Merely dueling with Savage isn't impressive. Malgus defeated Ven Zallow in a duel, the same guy who moments earlier was blitzing some of the greatest Sith Warriors in the Empire. And he defeated the Jedi Battlemaster in Keo Cen Darach, who showed extremely impressive skill and force power in the duel. The guy was wielding a double-bladed lightsaber in one hand, he was pretty damn good. And he more than held his own with Aryn Leneer, who was better than both of them.
Maul's opinions aren't worth much. This is the same guy who thought he could solo the Jedi Temple. And that definitely IS era bias. PT characters aren't better just because you think the era had stronger duelists. And a mid-tier duelist from that era isn't "a tier or so" above the best duelist of another era just because of that. 😬
Originally posted by ILS
I haven't ever heard of that Jedi being the one to drop two large buildings on Malgus. I'd appreciate a quote if you don't mind. Malgus landed a single Force push on Satele during the time of the Hope trailer, where IIRC Satele didn't have any feats on Koon's level just yet. Aryn Leneer I can't speak on, and Zallow is less powerful than Koon.I'm aware of the other feats you mentioned, and again, to my knowledge Adraas doesn't have power feats on Koon's level. Malgus ended all of his duels in the trailer-based fights and has allowed injured Jedi in the past to pick up their sabers and challenge him physically only to be killed by Malgus' saber. Take Koon's personal power and Malgus' lack of ability to simply wreck him, and Koon's superior dueling skill, and I see it as more likely that Koon would win by outdueling Malgus.
"The Jedi held his ground. At twenty meters, the Jedi raised his lightsabers aloft to either side of him and drew them both down in a flourish.
Too late the rumbling of the falling buildings penetrated the haze of Malgus' anger. An avalanche of duracrete and transparasteel crashed down on him from either side of the street.
Malgus stood in a pocket under a mountain of rubble, legs bent, the power from his upraised hands preventing several tons of duracrete and steel from crushing him. Dust made his already troubled breathing more difficult. He coughed as the words of his father echoed in his mind.
He'd been sloppy, so lost in his need for revenge that he'd failed to properly evaluate the Jedi's power. He'd surrendered his reason to bloodlust. But no more. With an effort of will, he contained his anger, controlled it, made it a whetstone against which he sharpened his power. Using the Force, he blew the rubble up and away from him. It fell with a crash into the adjacent buildings. A Force-augmented leap carried him out and over the heap. The Jedi's eyes widened as Malgus hit the street. Malgus sneered and charged. "
Malgus then considers the fact that he could easily destroy this Jedi in any number of ways but wants to get a lightsaber kill. Eventually though he just beats him with lightning, overpowering his lightsaber defense and burning holes in his chest. And this is before his massive amp at the end of Deceived.
Koon doesn't have anything to suggest he rivals Malgus in power or could survive his Force attacks. Collapsing a cave doesn't compare. I consider Adraas unleashing a Force wave powerful enough to crater the floor around him and kill a squad of soldiers equal to that. And he got handled by Zallow, let alone what Malgus did to him. Satele at this point was still powerful enough to shatter blast doors, grab lightsaber blades and blast 3 Sith into the air too. Malgus can smack Koon around with TK and lightning and probably beat him in a duel tbh. He rather easily wins.
Merely dueling with Savage isn't impressive. Malgus defeated Ven Zallow in a duel, the same guy who moments earlier was blitzing some of the greatest Sith Warriors in the Empire. And he defeated the Jedi Battlemaster in Keo Cen Darach, who showed extremely impressive skill and force power in the duel. The guy was wielding a double-bladed lightsaber in one hand, he was pretty damn good. And he more than held his own with Aryn Leneer, who was better than both of them.Maul's opinions aren't worth much. This is the same guy who thought he could solo the Jedi Temple. And that definitely IS era bias. PT characters aren't better just because you think the era had stronger duelists. And a mid-tier duelist from that era isn't "a tier or so" above the best duelist of another era just because of that.
Ven Zallow killed Sith who are lacking in substantial feats. Is he impressive for killing them? Certainly. Above Savage Opress? Not really. Malgus defeating Zallow is good but not as good as dueling evenly with Savage. Kao Cen Darach showed skill, and going by his status as a battle master denotes a certain level of skill but again, he doesn't have a lot of evidence in this area to make him as capable a combatant as the people Plo has fought. Plus, Kao was fatigued by the time Malgus poured on his final assault due to fighting him and Vindican by himself.
Maul was overconfident as hell, yes, but he's still an extremely capable duelist, and for him to regard Plo Koon as a "true test of skill", alongside someone as skilled as Mace Windu, only adds to my case.
You should probably stop insisting that I have some kind of bias against TOR or for PT. It isn't helping your case and is just completely false. The fact is TOR era does not have duelists on par with the likes of Sidious, Yoda, Mace Windu, Count Dooku, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Darth Maul, General Grievous, Anakin Skywalker and so on. Honestly I think some people generate an anti-PT bias because they believe so thoroughly that others are biased for PT. It's pretty silly, and it completely derails the debate itself.
Malgus then considers the fact that he could easily destroy this Jedi in any number of ways but wants to get a lightsaber kill. Eventually though he just beats him with lightning, overpowering his lightsaber defense and burning holes in his chest. And this is before his massive amp at the end of Deceived.Koon doesn't have anything to suggest he rivals Malgus in power or could survive his Force attacks. Collapsing a cave doesn't compare. I consider Adraas unleashing a Force wave powerful enough to crater the floor around him and kill a squad of soldiers equal to that. And he got handled by Zallow, let alone what Malgus did to him. Satele at this point was still powerful enough to shatter blast doors, grab lightsaber blades and blast 3 Sith into the air too. Malgus can smack Koon around with TK and lightning and probably beat him in a duel tbh. He rather easily wins.
I still disagree that Malgus is even matching Koon in skill never mind beating him easily, but I can now agree with you that he has a substantial edge in power. I guess it mostly depends on how Malgus chooses to fight - if he focuses on dueling he'll more than likely lose.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
He didn't best me in a Maul vs Leneer argument, and I don't even recall you two having one. 😖And yeah, Plo Koon only has a chance if it's pre-waifu, and even then the odds are stacked against him.
Both.
Originally posted by ILS
Of course it is. Savage has provided a challenge to Kenobi on two occasions, performed well against Ventress, and can be regarded as a masterful combatant by wielding a Saberstaff alone.Ven Zallow killed Sith who are lacking in substantial feats. Is he impressive for killing them? Certainly. Above Savage Opress? Not really. Malgus defeating Zallow is good but not as good as dueling evenly with Savage. Kao Cen Darach showed skill, and going by his status as a battle master denotes a certain level of skill but again, he doesn't have a lot of evidence in this area to make him as capable a combatant as the people Plo has fought. Plus, Kao was fatigued by the time Malgus poured on his final assault due to fighting him and Vindican by himself.
Maul was overconfident as hell, yes, but he's still an extremely capable duelist, and for him to regard Plo Koon as a "true test of skill", alongside someone as skilled as Mace Windu, only adds to my case.
You should probably stop insisting that I have some kind of bias against TOR or for PT. It isn't helping your case and is just completely false. The fact is TOR era does not have duelists on par with the likes of Sidious, Yoda, Mace Windu, Count Dooku, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Darth Maul, General Grievous, Anakin Skywalker and so on. Honestly I think some people generate an anti-PT bias because they believe so thoroughly that others are biased for PT. It's pretty silly, and it completely derails the debate itself.
And merely dueling him for a while doesn't indicate that Koon is equal to him. He still lost. And anyway, dueling Savage is more of a test of your physical abilities than your skill. I consider Ahsoka more skilled than freaking Savage. 🙄
Lacking substantial feats, but still considered among the greatest Sith Warriors alive at the time. And Zallow crushed them and was blitzing them. It's an incredibly impressive feat. Zallow was also well above other Jedi in teh battle at the time, including Kellian Jarro and Corin Tok, two highly impressive Jedi. And Koon isn't above Savage Opress, so I don't know what you're on about there. Zallow doesn't need to be above Savage to be on par with Koon. And Kao was more powerful and likely as skilled as Koon was, and Malgus beat him at his weakest and least skilled point.
I still don't rate that much at all. Maul's delusional. Who cares about his opinion. Besides, wasn't that from before TPM? It's hardly accurate in the CW considering even Savage beat Koon. Not really a true test of skill for someone like Maul.
Well you're really not helping your case when you start claiming that someone from the PT era is above one of the best duelists of TOR because that character is a mid-tier in the PT. How would you define that other than that you consider PT characters more skilled than those of other era's, because they're from the PT era? All you've done is try to justify your bias. But even a justifiable bias is still bias.
Originally posted by ILS
Ahh, that is actually pretty impressive. I wasn't aware that the Jedi had been the one to collapse the buildings.I still disagree that Malgus is even matching Koon in skill never mind beating him easily, but I can now agree with you that he has a substantial edge in power. I guess it mostly depends on how Malgus chooses to fight - if he focuses on dueling he'll more than likely lose.
I didn't say he'd beat Koon easily in skill, but he would beat him in lightsabers. He beat Zallow who was fast enough to blitz the finest Sith Warriors the Empire had, he matched Aryn who was fast enough to appear in multiple places at once and Malgus himself was fast enough that the world seemed frozen in time at one point. He's stronger than Aryn who was ale to throw him 30 meters with one hand and kicked Adraas hard enough to shoot him across a room and split a marble column in half. And he's much more powerful than Koon is, which adds a significant advantage to a lightsaber duel.
He's just all around better than Koon is in every way.
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Question: Has Plo Koon got any good showings with TK? The duel could go either way tbh, but i admittedly have no idea what Koon's force showings are.
He collapsed a cave, so he's Orgus Din level.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66I don't really get why it's a competition. I'm pretty sure most people on this board have the basics of debating down, it's just a case of reaching the right conclusion on a fight based on comparing evidence. That's kind of the point - to share knowledge.
It wasn't an insult, but rather instead a compliment to Nephthys's non Bane of Revan related debating skills.