Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Most of the listed feats for Satele aren't feats far beyond the feats of force users whom Dooku has casually dominated with the force. Toppling trees and crushing droids have been duplicated by Kenobi, among other impressive TK showings. Ventress has collapsed huge boulders from a cave and crushed giant warriors like bugs with them, has caused a massive avalanche, and nearly crushed the heart of master Fay. Vos has shattered the ground beneath him with a force push. Yet, when it comes to TK, none of them even approach Dooku, as evident in his casual handling of them.As far as dueling, in season 6 of TCW, Dooku basically proved that had Anakin not been there, he'd have ended Kenobi in seconds. Hell, Ventress, who is an Obi Wan level duelist herself, couldn't even gain an advantage over a drugged and blind Dooku in a saber duel despite triple teaming him with two other nightsisters, who were regarded as the clan's greatest warriors. Then there's the fact that Dooku has outdueled both Bulq and Tholme simultaneously.
For any attempt to lowball Tiin, the fact that Tiin is regarded as being one of the greatest duelist in an era Lucas refers to as the jedi in it's prime and Luke also referring to the era of jedi as the most powerful, would put Tiin above most by default. Not to mention that he was stated to have one of the most powerful force abilities of his time, and has been implied to have raw power that rivals Windu--a master who could nearly disintegrate a group of battle droids with a mere force push. Also, Tiin's ability to navigate ships in hyperspace with the force alone would suggest immense strength and command of the force (though I think the feat was performed during meditation, but still...). Not to mention his speed feats such as forming a shield from his blade to deflect waves of blaster bolts. It's not that Tiin lacks the hype/accolades/feats to suggest he is pretty high up their and far, far beyond average, it's the fact that Sidious took him out so ridiculously easy that people don't want to accept Tiin's superiority, because just by taking Tiin out alone so easily, would make it far too difficult for the TOR fan's to debunk the notion that Sidious could take out most of the TOR wanked characters just as easily, but that's if someone wanted to enforce Sidious's speed in this forum. Let's face it, if Silver were to come here, and make such a notion, no one would be able to counter him, because the minute someone brings up "well no Sidious can't do that to so and so because they are powerful," Silver would counter it with the fact that Tiin, too, is powerful. Not to mention that this "being powerful" logic you TOR supporters use to counter any notion of Sidious blitzing, is logic that can be used against your count claims. If speed is determined by power, the fact that the council members that Sidious did blitz are all regarded as some of the greatest swordsmen produced by the order, immense speed would be something they would have to have at their disposal. Speed is just as important in a saber duel as technical skill. If one lacks the speed to put his/her technical skill in good use, they wouldn't be referred to as top duelist by jedi standards. So prodigious speed would be a must, which would logically mean that they are force powerhouses.
Regardless, majority of the TOR characters that are wanked on these boards don't even have the feats to put them above the likes of Tiin, Kolar or Fisto. In a hype/accolade contest, most of which are relied on here to elevate TOR characters, these three jedi master council members shit all over most. The strike team assembled to take on Sidious, is one of the best strike teams (perhaps the best) that as ever been assembled to take on a powerful foe.
Lol wtf.
Eh, I think all hype is more of a Tiin thing, he has a few showings here and there but nothing that great in terms of lightsaber combat - force wise he's decent i suppose. Kolar at the very least did defeat Quinlan Vos, though this was at a time where dooku considered his skill atrocious, so it's impressive, but it wasn't Vos at his peak.
Originally posted by ILSso you agree. Kolar isnt that great. So how is Satele only on his level?
Vos obviously isn't the best.Yes, he is below Fisto as a duelist.
"Mid council member" is a meaningless title.
What does that have to do with Kolar's level of skill apparently being based entirely on accolades?
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Holy giant wall of speculative text Batman!
Can you pin point the speculation? You have a habit of criticizing arguments you can't even begin to counter, yet you consider yourself above insults and trolling, which is what you're doing here. And you have your nerve to accuse Cart of being a troll and getting riled up when I defend him?
@Bantha, the only one on Mace's B-team who lacks combat feats is Tiin (the other two have extremely good combat showings, as ILS pointed out), but he has extremely good force feats, speed feats, and accolades. No, Satele does not have better hype. In fact her hype has no bearing on an era that has yet to exist. The B-team are referred to as the greatest of all time, which includes Satele's era. It doesn't automatically prove they are better than her, but their accolades and hype does hold more merit than Satele's. Logically, being at the top of an era in it's prime would be a harder position to achieve than any in other era. Regardless, I wasn't trying to compare them to Satele, I was addressing any attempt to lowball Tiin.
You are saying "hype from earlier eras mean less than hype from eras that come later" which is an idiotic statement. Satele Shan was originally going to fulfill the role that the HOT later did. As such she is established as being the very top of her era, an era the produced many impressive characters. If you are just talking about hype Satele has that and then some plus she has the showings to back it up
Originally posted by WildBantha88
You are saying "hype from earlier eras mean less than hype from eras that come later" which is an idiotic statement. Satele Shan was originally going to fulfill the role that the HOT later did. As such she is established as being the very top of her era, an era the produced many impressive characters. If you are just talking about hype Satele has that and then some plus she has the showings to back it up
I'm saying that the majority of the hype from earlier eras doesn't hold more merit (which is what's been claimed here) since the hype has no connection to characters who didn't even exist then. Pay attention.
Quality > quantity. Each member from the B-team have feats to back up their hype as well. As I said earlier, though, I wasn't suggesting that the members were Satele's superior, however, their hype shits all over majority of the TOR characters that are wanked furiously on this forum.
Obviously you're getting mad over points that you're missing.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66no one is getting mad. I am simply stating your illogic. The only time that later era hype>early era hype is if the quote says something like "of all time". And satele has better quality of hype than the b-team. And Satele has the feats to back up her vastly superior hype. She is capable of pulling off feats that only a legendary could and is constantly referred to as one of the most powerful Jedi in existence at that time.
I'm saying that the majority of the hype from earlier eras doesn't hold more merit (which is what's been claimed here) since the hype has no connection to characters who didn't even exist then. Pay attention.Quality > quantity. Each member from the B-team have feats to back up their hype as well. As I said earlier, though, I wasn't suggesting that the members were Satele's superior, however, their hype shits all over majority of the TOR characters that are wanked furiously on this forum.
Obviously you're getting mad over points that you're missing.
Agen Kolar being considered one of the best duelists in the Order along with Mace, and absolutely decimating a serious Quinlan Vos, is enough to put him on par with the likes of Dooku. Dooku would beat him but it'd be after a hard fight (unless he uses the Force, which has nothing to do with dueling).