Bill Cosby Rape Allegations

Originally posted by dadudemon
That's not the question, either. The question is, "Why would an A-List celebrity need to use a date-rape drug to have sex with anyone?" And we can add, "And went uncaught for decades, while being an extremely visible public figure, and fits a serial rapist profile?"

Your question is easily answerable with his 1982 allegation when a woman went back to his cabin (I assume) and claims she was drugged and molested. That doesn't add up. Unless, of course, this famous model was a sheltered Mormon who doesn't know what happens when you go back to a man's place (Mormons like that exist: trust me).

The shallow arguments you bring forth are exactly the reason why so many victims of rape never come forward. Just as a woman saying she was raped doesn't prove that that was the case, neither does a woman going to a cabin with a man mean that she can't have been raped.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Just as a woman saying she was raped doesn't prove that that was the case, neither does a woman going to a cabin with a man mean that she can't have been raped.

Looks like you making my arguments for me under the false pretense that you're arguing against them. This is my point. We have nothing but accusations and some of those don't make sense without making ridiculous assumptions without evidence.

In a court of law, as I've stated probably 3 times now, a person is innocent until proven guilty. The way witch hunts work in the US, they are guilty until proven innocent. Sorry, it is not going to fly. It is improbable that he is a extremely rare type of criminal that has gotten away with serial rape for decades while being a highly visible celebrity. Accusations without evidence aren't going to cut it.

Public opinion does indeed not have to abide by legal tenets. People can go by which side they find more believable, and that's what is happening.

Originally posted by Robtard
There seems to be maybe two people in here who are convinced he's a rapist.

I'm not convinced he's innocent, though. I'm just not convinced he's a rapist, either. We have "first hand" accounts that he's an arrogant and possibly even narcissistic *******. I'm betting if I looked, we have firsthand accounts where he's being "super nice." But neither of those things are evidence that he's a rapist or just another "burn a celebrity at the stake" victim.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It is improbable that he is a extremely rare type of criminal that has gotten away with serial rape for decades while being a highly visible celebrity. Accusations without evidence aren't going to cut it.

Once again I'm not implying anything against Cosby but both Sommervile & Harris had the same length of career as Cosby going back to the 60's when they were finally exposed last year.
Both these entertainers would've been their country's version of Bill Cosby as far as a wholesome image that they protray to the public goes.

So I wouldn't conclude either improbable or rare as actions go.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Your question is easily answerable with his 1982 allegation when a woman went back to his cabin (I assume) and claims she was drugged and molested. That doesn't add up. Unless, of course, this famous model was a sheltered Mormon who doesn't know what happens when you go back to a man's place (Mormons like that exist: trust me).

😕

Wh-what happens when you go back to a man's place?
Does something bad happen?

Does it still happen if you yourself are a man?
What if you went there by mistake or - or were just asking to use his phone ...?

What if you're not Mormon? Does it still count if you're not Mormon?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Looks like you've already convicted him with 0 evidence and still ignored all the counter-arguments I made to everything you stated in this post of yours. It's idiocy like this that makes me think people like you should lose the right to vote.

like i said, i really could give a shit. let the jury decide if he's guilty or not. i take 4 women accusing him into consideration when judging the likelihood of him being a rapist just as much as i take him being a public target into consideration. i don't know him nor the women so it could really go either way at the end of the day.

Originally posted by red g jacks
i keep saying repeatedly i'm not saying he's guilty i'm just not giving him leverage for his celebrity status.

K.

Originally posted by red g jacks
you keep finding dumb ways to try to straw man my argument while citing latin fallacies to sound smart

I'm flattered that you think I am trying to sound smart. 313 But, nope, I've been using those debate fallacies since...well...debate class in high school.

Originally posted by red g jacks
cause it's really important to you to always be right and win every conversation.

If that were true, all you'd have to do is one or more of 4 things:

1. Concede points (not necessarily all of them).
2. Say you're wrong.
3. Say I'm right.
4. Stop posting.
5. Distract me with a completely irrelevant topic (same as #4 but it's easier to trick me, that way).

Originally posted by red g jacks
that's why if i disagree with you it's hard to talk to you like a normal person cause you immediately go into battle mode and just want to prove that you can't be moved from some position you staked out.

You only find it difficult because you cannot come up with any good arguments and you yourself are guilty of the things you accuse me of but in spades and with more fallacies. 🙂

But, deep down, you argue with me because you love me.

Originally posted by red g jacks
like i said, i really could give a shit.

You do or else you wouldn't respond. You care about me, my perspective, and how others view my points. You care quite a bit. Probably more so than what most others say. That's because I make very strong and logical arguments (regardless of whether or not they are right). If I was just another idiot posting bullshit (and there are those that do that around these parts), you'd just ignore them like you do those others. For me, it's a compliment that someone views my perspective with such high regard that they must respond and continue to reply so I don't squander the opportunity to engage a person back. 😄

Originally posted by red g jacks
let the jury decide if he's guilty or not.

That's ("that is" = a jury trial or grand jury hearing) not going to happen. There's not enough for prosecution so a prosecutor will not file charges.

Originally posted by red g jacks
i take 4 women accusing him into consideration when judging the likelihood of him being a rapist just as much as i take him being a public target into consideration. i don't know him nor the women so it could really go either way at the end of the day.

I mostly agree with this statement but I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt when there is no evidence (because that is how our court system is generally supposed to work).

Now, if a photo turns up with him in it with a lady that is clearly out of it...hmm...that'd be a very quick way to make me flip-fop.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
😕

Wh-what happens when you go back to a man's place?

If you're going back to a famous male's vacation spot, and you're not a child (unless you're going with Michael Jackson), you can expect some sex and partying.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Does something bad happen?

Almost always not. For most, these are moments they cherish the rest of their lives, talking about them fondly with friends. Some report regret because the glamour and excitement get them caught up and they make decisions they wouldn't normally make.

Also, some celebs are super cool and give their fans party bags (you know, the ones that they bang). I believe A-Rod does this to the gals he sleeps with (if it isn't A-Rod, it is some other super-high-paid MLB player).

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Does it still happen if you yourself are a man?

I suppose the same can happen but those stories seem less frequent. Perhaps they are kept under wrap more?

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
What if you went there by mistake or - or were just asking to use his phone ...?

"Mr. Cosby, can we travel over a hundred miles to one of your vacation spots so I can make a phone call?"

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
What if you're not Mormon? Does it still count if you're not Mormon?

Nope. Only Mormons are naive.

I think we should all wait for additional evidence to come out before we make conclusions.

Obviously we can't assume Bill Cosby is innocent simply because of who he is (I know, innocent until proven guilty is the legal rule, but in terms of forming beliefs, it's epistemologically irresponsible to credit someone with innocence a priori), but we also shouldn't be quick to jump to condeming him based on the accusations. I'll admit I don't know much about the case, but I've seen rape allegations that just piled on and that ended up being lots of hot air, but then I've also seen ones that turned out to be proven (Jimmy Savile being the biggest recent example). The fact that Cosby has been out of the spotlight for a while leads me to think this isn't some kind of targeted smear campaign, which makes me lean toward thinking he's guilty, though I haven't seen hard evidence that would back that up yet.

tl;dr: anything is possible at this point, so wait for further evidence to come through before taking solid positions on the case(s)

look i'm not gonna do the sentence by sentence thing cause that really annoys the shit out of me and removes most of the context of each sentence within the post and turns into a machine for creating 20 new arguments out of 1 petty disagreement.

i'll tell you like this. i thought your point about him swimming in pussy wasn't very good so i pointed it out. we can disagree on that it won't really break my heart i promise.

i 'don't care' about the verdict or whether he really raped them, not i don't care what you think. i know you're smart and i'll be honest you might even be smarter than me but you also seem incredibly uptight to me so basically you fired shots at me and i fired some back for fun in the midst of basically just saying the fact that he can get pussy doesn't make him any less a rapist suspect. that's my basic stance and beyond that i won't be following this case close enough to find out if you're right or wrong but eventually i'll hear about it through a third party. then maybe i'll get back to you and say you were onto something, or i'll rub it in that i was right.

Originally posted by red g jacks
look i'm not gonna do the sentence by sentence thing cause that really annoys the shit out of me

Originally posted by red g jacks
and removes most of the context of each sentence within the post and turns into a machine for creating 20 new arguments out of 1 petty disagreement.

No it doesn't. 🙂

Originally posted by red g jacks
i'll tell you like this. i thought your point about him swimming in pussy wasn't very good so i pointed it out. we can disagree on that it won't really break my heart i promise.

Okay, fair enough. But the rumors are that he was swimming in poo-nanner.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
The fact that Cosby has been out of the spotlight for a while leads me to think this isn't some kind of targeted smear campaign, which makes me lean toward thinking he's guilty, though I haven't seen hard evidence that would back that up yet.

This is a good point but others have analyzed this and come up with conclusions as to why these allegations took off: he was making a come-back.* A big come-back. Due to this attention, the accusations were made again but they "stuck" this time because of the traction he was getting in the press.

So, quite literally, these allegations are rearing their head and sticking around simply because of his resurgence in fame. Obviously, whether or not he is guilty is a different matter.

To put it more simply: even if all the allegations are part of a money-grabbing smear campaign, they would still stick due to the timing and variables surrounding the timing.

*These same accusations are not new things (I believe this same kind of situation popped up around 2005 but it didn't really go anywhere because Cosby was not as active in the entertainment community). What is new is that he was making a comeback.

lol i knew you would still respond like that too. and i believe bill cosby could get pussy, that was never in doubt. but he could be a secret pervert still. look at bundy. he was intelligent, attractive, successful. it doesn't gain you any credit in my book to be good with women when it comes to rape charges. kobe etc etc. (alright kobe was a little different but still)

Originally posted by red g jacks
lol i knew you would still respond like that too.

Face it: you know you love me. awesome

Originally posted by red g jacks
and i believe bill cosby could get pussy, that was never in doubt. but he could be a secret pervert still. look at bundy. he was intelligent, attractive, successful. it doesn't gain you any credit in my book to be good with women when it comes to rape charges. kobe etc etc. (alright kobe was a little different but still)

Weeeell, Ted Bundy is literally, the rarest type of rapist. He's not a really good comparison (rapists are significantly varied in how they do things with the only common denominator being that they sexual violate people). A better comparison to the accusations against Cosby is a college frat-boy who uses GHB to drug women's drinks. But even that doesn't stack up because the Frat-Boy would need to be swimming in poo-nanner, first, before a proper comparison can be made (and my understanding from the studies of young men who do that at universities is they are sexually frustrated and it is about control, which kind of rules out the "swimming in poo-nanner" part of the comparison).

Edit - I wish Lil B still posted. She has a Masters in Criminology and she can explain these things with far better deftness than I can.

i'm not saying he's exactly like bundy but if he date raped 4 random chicks when he was rich and famous as hell i would think he probably has some sort of ****ed up fetish or maybe he just got belligerent with the amount of power that wealth and fame can buy.

i know that's all hypothetical too so don't ask me how i know but i'm just saying it wouldn't really surprise me if that turned out to be true. and to be honest it wouldn't surprise me that much if these chicks had some sort of bad feelings about how he did them with consensual sex way back when and then one hops on the others bandwagon etc. i could honest realistically see this shit unfold either way.

Originally posted by red g jacks
i know that's all hypothetical too so don't ask me how i know but i'm just saying it wouldn't really surprise me if that turned out to be true. and to be honest it wouldn't surprise me that much if these chicks had some sort of bad feelings about how he did them with consensual sex way back when and then one hops on the others bandwagon etc. i could honest realistically see this shit unfold either way.

I do believe we are in agreement, good sir!

👆

Originally posted by dadudemon
This is missed the point entirely. It is unnecessary to point out that rape isn't a purely sexual crime to a forum of adults who are almost all college educated.

You're also making the same mistake as Red: you're painting the picture of a very specific type of rapist without evidence. Do you wish to paint Bill Cosby as "Violent, Wrathful, and Controlling?"

You should know that there are multiple kinds of serial rapists: not just the violent, wrathful, controlling kind.

Here's the point you missed: Bill Cosby is accused of getting sexual gratification from people by drugging them. This does not fit the profile of a celebrity that has access to pretty much anyone. Violent type that you described? Yeah, I could see that from a celebrity. A date rape drug back in the early 80s? I dunno...maybe...but it seems stupid to use a drug to have sex with a woman that came back to your cabin.

"Because! Because! He's a rapist that wants the thrill and control!"

Oookay....that's not going to fly. This is an A-List celebrity. This is not some random dude. Even in 1982, Bill Cosby was famous. He could easily pay for this from a very expensive prostitution service. If you want this conversation to be about Bill Cosby living out power play fantasies with date rape drugs, you'll need to do more than use arguments that appeal to an irrelevant rapist profile.

Actually, it does. These allegations state he is drugging them and either molesting them or having sex with them. Basically, the accusation is he's drugging them and then getting sexual gratification. See above why it makes no sense to dismiss his A-List celebrity card.

Buddy, you genuinely asked this entire thread "why an a-list celebrity would need to drug somebody."

That's like, an actual question you asked. Because, as you pointed out, it "doesn't fit the profile."

Why would someone who can easily have sex, ever drug or rape someone?

Again...because rape is not a purely sexual crime. Why would you go out of your way to discredit that? That's...kinda scary, man.

Originally posted by Quincy
Buddy, you genuinely asked this entire thread "why an a-list celebrity would need to drug somebody."

That's like, an actual question you asked. Because, as you pointed out, it "doesn't fit the profile."

Why would someone who can easily have sex, ever drug or rape someone?

Again...because rape is not a purely sexual crime. Why would you go out of your way to discredit that? That's...kinda scary, man.

You did not address the content of my reply. Also, pointing out that there are different kinds of rapists is hardly scary. Lastly, stating that I am discrediting the notion that rape is not purely a sexual crime because I pointed out that there are multiple kinds of rapists and that it is obvious that rape is not a purely sexual crime, is so far up Convolution's ass that I am not sure what type of fallacy that is: argumentum ad absurdum?

Address the content of my reply rather than just repeating yourself and finishing off with a strawman. The burden of proof is on you, if you choose to label Bill Cosby as a Violent, Controlling, Aggressive rapist type (which doesn't even make sense since he's accused of being a drug-up and molest/rape kind of rapist which does not fit the typical profile of that rapist type (sexually frustrated and angry at women)).

Pretending to be scared of psychology solely for the sake of demonizing someone critical of your baseless accusations is pretty lame.

As people like you make more and more arguments for why you think Bill Cosby is either guilty or you think he could be guilty, the more it does not make sense.

There are now 15 accusations against Bill Cosby, by the way. 15. Red made a good point that if tons of people are accusing him of it, it's either a bandwagon or something real is going on. I am unsure if one side or the other should be given more attention or consideration because, as Bardock pointed out, this is part of the problem of scaring women into not reporting their attackers (and there are probably male victims in the same category): they'll be accused of trying to destroy someone, trying to money grab, or trying to get 15 minutes of fame.

But my question is....all of these adult rape victims and not a single one reported the assaults until now? Perhaps I am being too-optimistic but should not have at least 2, based on the statistics, reported it at the time and gotten an examination?

You're an interesting guy. It's strange, you seem to get needlessly flustered when someone says something to you or responds to you. I mean, I explained my response, and my response is not an acceptable response to you. You seem pretty smart, and clearly you've utilized a thesaurus in your long lifetime and your vocabulary is impressive, but you don't seem able to recognize my point at the absurdity of your question.

I thought it was pretty clear, but if I can't get through to you without you getting a little defensive, I guess I'm not explaining it correctly.

I mean, were you just asking rhetorically how a celebrity would ever feel the need to drug and molest somebody? You get what my response is, right?