Your entire argument, summarised, Jimmy:
1. Surfer will use his speed, as CIS and PIS is off, to destroy BB's antenna, drain Hyperion, and bombard Gladiator with his radiation weakness.
2. Gladiator has been tagged by human-level opponents, therefore, he cannot react to Surfer.
3. You post five scans of the various arguments above.
4. You finally post an additional five scans. Four of his reflexes, and one of his speed.
Am I right? Have I missed anything out?
My rebuttal:
1. CIS is not off. Please show where in the rules it states this. Please show proof of SURFER detecting his opponents' weakness and acting on it. That was the wrong Hyperion, so inadmissible for this fight.
2. Those were all PIS moments. IF you really want to use those showings, well, two can play at that game. Here are multiple scans of Surfer being outreacted by Super Skrull, Rhino, Invisible Woman, Spiderman, Daredevil, and Black Panther. Also, Mexicans. But of course, I would NEVER use these in a serious match, but since you are using PIS moments, I'm trying to show you the door opens both ways.
3. Of the five scans, four were not working. I told you two weren't, seeing if you would realise. But you didn't.
4. Of the four 'reflex' scans, the robot monster and train scans aren't of his reflexes. In the former scan, Surfer just says if he had been a microsecond slower, he'd have been hit. That does not mean he has microsecond reflexes. In the latter, he stops it in a microsecond. Proof of his stopping power, not of his reflexes. Unless you think every time a train driver brakes, he too has microsecond reaction times. I then said that the travelling speed feat, whilst nice, is neither here nor there. AND I acknowledged your TWO reflex speed scans, and said they were good and I accept them.
In the post ^^^^ i show how he beats them and how hyperion and black bolt can be defeated easily, i also show glads weakness.
http://i.imgur.com/BnlSUYc.jpg
atomizes a weapon
SPEED/reaction time:
http://i.imgur.com/KkwoUY6.jpg
Microsecond reaction time
http://i.imgur.com/m8j24Ps.jpg
Microsecond reaction time AGAIN
http://i.imgur.com/46uy4kf.jpg
In a microsecond he assesses the situation AND IN LESS THAN A MICRO SECOND HE INITIATES HIS PLAN
http://i.imgur.com/YYtA2F4.jpg
THINKS FASTER THAN NANOSECOND AND BREAKS FREE FROM SHACKLES BEFORE A NANO SECOND PASSES
http://i.imgur.com/C6FgEnh.jpg
While traveling ftl surfer is able to map the universe
Surfer is too fast for them, sorry i had to bust the speed scans on you guys wink
Speed scans that you have yet to counter, this is how he easily enforces his will.
These all work^^^
Yeah, Jimmy, you're deliberately ignoring my points, or you're not understanding them. Please, reply to each of the 4 points I raised. Like I said, it's a braking feat, not a reflex feat. If somebody runs into the Juggernaut, and are stopped cold, and the Juggernaut just stands there....is that a reflex feat for Juggy? All Surfer did was throw up a barrier which stopped the train in a microsecond. Did he throw that barrier up in a microsecond? The scan does not say. But unless that train was going INCREDIBLY fast (and it was pulling into a station) then no, it wasn't thrown up in a microsecond, and you can't prove it was.
But please, reply to my four points. Did I miss anything out? You keep saying I missed things out, even going as far as to say I missed 70% of your comments, Jimmy. But please, I obviously haven't. So reply to each of them, if you can. You will see your central argument was destroyed.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
My rebuttal:1. CIS is not off. Please show where in the rules it states this. Please show proof of SURFER detecting his opponents' weakness and acting on it. That was the wrong Hyperion, so inadmissible for this fight.
2. Those were all PIS moments. [b]IF
you really want to use those showings, well, two can play at that game. Here are multiple scans of Surfer being outreacted by Super Skrull, Rhino, Invisible Woman, Spiderman, Daredevil, and Black Panther. Also, Mexicans. But of course, I would NEVER use these in a serious match, but since you are using PIS moments, I'm trying to show you the door opens both ways.3. Of the five scans, four were not working. I told you two weren't, seeing if you would realise. But you didn't.
4. Of the four 'reflex' scans, the robot monster and train scans aren't of his reflexes. In the former scan, Surfer just says if he had been a microsecond slower, he'd have been hit. That does not mean he has microsecond reflexes. In the latter, he stops it in a microsecond. Proof of his stopping power, not of his reflexes. Unless you think every time a train driver brakes, he too has microsecond reaction times. I then said that the travelling speed feat, whilst nice, is neither here nor there. AND I acknowledged your TWO reflex speed scans, and said they were good and I accept them. [/B]
1:
"At times, for the sake of the plot, characters that are immensely more powerful than their opponent will "job" to carry on the plot of the story, even though the characters powers and history would clearly show that they are more than capable of destroying their opponent. For this reason we have a No PIS Rule. This rule prohibits the use of such instances of PIS from being used as evidence in debates. " - rules
The scans i showed of how fast surfer is do not agree with spiderman being able to touch him, the scans you used are clear pis.
I do not need cis, pis is all i need to dispute your clear pis scans that you are tying to use to further your debate.
2: All of those scans you are threatening are clear pis because of how fast surfer is and the fact that he will not hold back speed in this battle. You using scans that have multiple people able to touch surfer for the sake of the plot will prove nothing.
3: All of my speed scans were working and i corrected the black bolt scan. There were a few other scans that i needed to correct but they do not matter atm.
4: The train scan i misread due to the person i got it from being wrong about what happened. My bad i fudged up on the train scan which is not even close to as good as the other scans.
You trying to say i have a limited amount of speed scans is hilarious considering you have literally zero. Get some scans of your own if you are going to talk sh*t.
http://i.imgur.com/QPTSgRG.jpg
Surfer has shown to be able to transmute things and people, here he transmutes mist into liquid(mist is a person) i am just showing that he can alter the physiology of things but he has many more scans of this.
http://i.imgur.com/BnlSUYc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/hTPkcFF.jpg
As i have already shown he can render things into atoms on a whim which he could potentially do to any of the people on the team. Durability does not help having all your atoms separated.
http://i.imgur.com/IvV6vPw.jpg
Here is another transmuting feat, here he transmutes nebula's armor into a cocoon.
TRANSMUTING ORGANIC MATTER:
http://i.imgur.com/NRo1X28.jpg
Here he plays around with jack of hearts organs. Transmuting and matter manipulation cannot be stopped by durability alone as shown here where he can transmute jack.
Surfer has also cured disease by transmuting organic matter.
Surfer has extreme power and durability, he has destroyed planets and survived planet busting explosions.
http://i.imgur.com/15QC13F.jpg
Here he destroys a planet to make a point, his power is astonishing.
http://i.imgur.com/704Tkq2.jpg
Surfers clash with morg also destroys a planet and it is a great durability feat, while morg is knocked out surfer is not even fazed.
DURABILITY:
I feel like you have been vastly underrating surfers durability this entire time, he is much more durable than you are making him out to be.
http://i.imgur.com/JAjQw9q.png
Surfs a supernova
http://i.imgur.com/KUACx2C.jpg
Cruises through another supernova unfazed
http://i.imgur.com/lZ0n50N.jpg
Even more supernova surfing, he is ridiculously durable and if you know anything about a supernova you know how impressive these feats are.
http://i.imgur.com/YdaxMmX.jpg
Tanks a hit that can shatter a world.
http://i.imgur.com/6UbYBzE.jpg
Beams from ego only knock surfer off of his board, ego can destroy planets with those very beams as shown here:
http://i.imgur.com/CxJc84Y.jpg
Surfer can handle anything the team can give him, black bolt will be out of the fight as soon as it starts and surfer may be able to manipulate the teams matter like he did to jack of hearts. Gladiator has a severe weakness to radiation, so much so that lilandra feared for him against surfer and he knows this weakness.
SHIELDS:
http://i.imgur.com/C2BaMFE.jpg
Surfer shields are powerful enough to block blasts from a power gem enhance thor, he could easily use these shields to block shots from anyone on the team.
http://i.imgur.com/GBvVWJF.jpg
Surfer can also phase through things as shown in the scan above so on top of being faster if he does not want to be hit, he has shields and can phase through matter.
Just found this scan, surfer is able to atomize something as powerful as his own board:
http://i.imgur.com/XdkFzDa.jpg
Surfer very well may be able to atomize the whole team, he is blood lusted he has no reason not to.
Surfer has a lot more tools than the team and his speed will help him utilize this, he is much faster and speed is very important in a fight, they will not be able to hurt him because they cannot touch him. He could render them into atoms. Surfer knows the weakness of gladiator and black bolt will be taken out as soon as the fight starts due to his antenna being taken out by surfer.
This post might be a bit sloppy, i have not slept yet and i found different scans at different times.
You have not done anything to prove they can keep up with surfer btw.
Lol. You were so eager to win the border skirmishes, you can't see that you lost the war.
1. So no proof about CIS being off. IOW, no proof that a blood lusted Surfer would detect BB's antenna and act on it, and no proof that Hyperion can even be drained like with Radioactive Man. So your central argument has been destroyed, and your attempt at clouding this by throwing up other red herrings shows you admit that your tactic is defeated.
2. I only use PIS when YOU used PIS. Are you still adamant that Gladiator has only human level reflexes? Considering you have already admitted you were wrong about Hyperion, and admitted you're wrong about the train, do you want to push this point?
3. OK, we can move on. I hope you've checked all your new scans that you've copy/pasted.
4. So you have shown two reflex feats, that's fine. So I only need to show two reflex feats to show Gladiator is not just human level, right? Otherwise, its a bit hypocritical that you only need to show two which negates the five or so that I showed, right?
The problem here is that you think only you know Surfer, and you need to educate us. When in fact, we've all seen those scans before and know what he can do, hence our stance.
nice. 👆 ss could potentially win this imo, depending on how the team elected to go at him. if they got in close, they'd end it in a hurry. he'd need to go all exotic to really have a chance, and i wouldn't expect him to do that more then 2/10 so the large majority to the team.
glads actually has the better combat speed feats, and hyperion was able to keep up with him (at least a lesser version of hyperion was) so i don't have an issue with saying current hype could as well. IF anyone is faster, the advantages would be negligible and the fight certainly wouldn't turn on the issue.
glads and hype are certainly fast enough to mount a combo charge and both have high level range attacks. phasing would help ss the most, defensive shields would prolong things. bolt is being a little overlooked but once ss was rendered stationary his power would DEF be able to finish him or nearly do so at the least. he's not opening any black holes behind anyone's eyes, he's not time traveling, he's not going to blitz and overwhelm this group in any match, not even once out of 10 and anyone thinking he does really doesn't know the ss. and draining hyperion? wtf?
in character team wins almost every time. ooc ss would have a decent chance in a sense that he might be allowed to use his more exotic/one-off powers.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol. You were so eager to win the border skirmishes, you can't see that you lost the war.
1. So no proof about CIS being off. IOW, no proof that a blood lusted Surfer would detect BB's antenna and act on it, and no proof that Hyperion can even be drained like with Radioactive Man. So your central argument has been destroyed, and your attempt at clouding this by throwing up other red herrings shows you admit that your tactic is defeated.2. I only use PIS when YOU used PIS. Are you still adamant that Gladiator has only human level reflexes? Considering you have already admitted you were wrong about Hyperion, and admitted you're wrong about the train, do you want to push this point?
3. OK, we can move on. I hope you've checked all your new scans that you've copy/pasted.
4. So you have shown two reflex feats, that's fine. So I only need to show two reflex feats to show Gladiator is not just human level, right? Otherwise, its a bit hypocritical that you only need to show two which negates the five or so that I showed, right?
The problem here is that you think only you know Surfer, and you need to educate us. When in fact, we've all seen those scans before and know what he can do, hence our stance.
Hyperion being drained is the old argument now you are just trying to trip me up but i have not used this since i found they were different versions. Thor stated himself that hey felt the energy:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/132322/2547506-thorvsblackbolt03.jpg
Thor figured out it was channeling his energy, surfer would easily feel this.
"Are you still adamant that Gladiator has only human level reflexes"
never said this, i said he does not have any reaction time feats except for being outpaced by human reaction time....you do not have the scans to prove anything you have said. You proclaiming gladiator fast does nothing.
Number 4 is completely illogical because if you would have shown speed feats to prove me wrong then that theory would work, but you have not, you still sit here proclaiming things and not proving anything you say.
2: Lol are you saying all of my points are invalid because i messed up like twice, you have messed up this entire time by backing up nothing, you have not shown any speed feats to put them on the teams level and you completely ignored my argument about atomizing.
Hyperion being drained is not my central argument, you have not proven he can do a thing to surfer, you have not proven any of them can touch surfer.
Still no scans i see, not surprising.
Originally posted by leonidas
nice. 👆 ss could potentially win this imo, depending on how the team elected to go at him. if they got in close, they'd end it in a hurry. he'd need to go all exotic to really have a chance, and i wouldn't expect him to do that more then 2/10 so the large majority to the team.glads actually has the better combat speed feats, and hyperion was able to keep up with him (at least a lesser version of hyperion was) so i don't have an issue with saying current hype could as well. IF anyone is faster, the advantages would be negligible and the fight certainly wouldn't turn on the issue.
glads and hype are certainly fast enough to mount a combo charge and both have high level range attacks. phasing would help ss the most, defensive shields would prolong things. bolt is being a little overlooked but once ss was rendered stationary his power would DEF be able to finish him or nearly do so at the least. he's not opening any black holes behind anyone's eyes, he's not time traveling, he's not going to blitz and overwhelm this group in any match, not even once out of 10 and anyone thinking he does really doesn't know the ss. and draining hyperion? wtf?
in character team wins almost every time. ooc ss would have a decent chance in a sense that he might be allowed to use his more exotic/one-off powers.
Prove it, prove he has faster combat speed, if he does all you have to do is prove it. Right now you are just added to the list of people proclaiming things and not backing anything up.
Originally posted by thingy150
Hyperion being drained is the old argument now you are just trying to trip me up but i have not used this since i found they were different versions. Thor stated himself that hey felt the energy:http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/132322/2547506-thorvsblackbolt03.jpg
Thor figured out it was channeling his energy, surfer would easily feel this.
"Are you still adamant that Gladiator has only human level reflexes"
never said this, i said he does not have any reaction time feats except for being outpaced by human reaction time....you do not have the scans to prove anything you have said. You proclaiming gladiator fast does nothing.
Number 4 is completely illogical because if you would have shown speed feats to prove me wrong then that theory would work, but you have not, you still sit here proclaiming things and not proving anything you say.
2: Lol are you saying all of my points are invalid because i messed up like twice, you have messed up this entire time by backing up nothing, you have not shown any speed feats to put them on the teams level and you completely ignored my argument about atomizing.
Hyperion being drained is not my central argument, you have not proven he can do a thing to surfer, you have not proven any of them can touch surfer.
Still no scans i see, not surprising.
So your central argument that Surfer would detect the antenna, break it, then drain Hyperion then irradiate Gladiator is now gone?
Because no proof has been shown of Surfer scanning and doing that (I don't care what Thor does as he's not here), then no proof of draining, means your central argument is dead in the water. And now lo and behold, you bring up another tactic. Stop trying to duck, dip, dodge and dive..... Do you concede that your original argument is now dead? We can then move on.
I ask because I want to know how much effort you want me to put in, before I provide scans. Btw, you keep saying I've provided no scans, I've provided quite a few, you'll find.
But you want me to show scans, fine, but I don't want to provide one then you keep asking for more. Two scans would be enough, right? As all you've provided are two scans of his reflexes. Weren't you leaving this thread? I mean I kinda feel guilty about kicking a puppy when he's down.
I love how you are trying to insult me in this last comment but all you are doing is evading my points and everything i have talked about. Surfer feels all types of energy around him, you saying he would not feel the energy from black bolts antenna is just ridiculous. I LOVE THAT YOU ARE TALKING SH*T SAYING I HAVE LIMITED REACTION TIME FEATS YET YOU HAVE LITERALLY ZERO.
You have done nothing in this thread so now you are trying to insult me so you can run from my argument some more, surfer can manipulate there molecules just like he did to jack of hearts, i have proven he has several ways not to be hit by them. Those ways being speed, force fields(powerful enough to hol back power gem thors blast) and phasing, he can turn intangible and phase through matter. He can manipulate the matter and even atomize them.
You have still not proven any of them on surfers level. I left because you did not have an argument and you continue to not have one.
So it should be easy to show Surfer feeling an opponents energy and acting appropriately, right? CIS is still on after all. Two scans would do. Should be easy right? I'm stupid. I don't know when Surfer has done this. Please educate me.
So how many scans do you want me to show of his reflexes? Like I said, I want to know before I put effort in.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So it should be easy to show Surfer feeling an opponents energy and acting appropriately, right? CIS is still on after all. Two scans would do. Should be easy right? I'm stupid. I don't know when Surfer has done this. Please educate me.So how many scans do you want me to show of his reflexes? Like I said, I want to know before I put effort in.
Stop, you have done nothing and you have ignored all of my past arguments and scans including the big set of scans i just took the time to pull up.
SPEED/reaction time:
http://i.imgur.com/KkwoUY6.jpg
Microsecond reaction time
http://i.imgur.com/m8j24Ps.jpg
Microsecond reaction time AGAIN
http://i.imgur.com/46uy4kf.jpg
In a microsecond he assesses the situation AND IN LESS THAN A MICRO SECOND HE INITIATES HIS PLAN
http://i.imgur.com/YYtA2F4.jpg
THINKS FASTER THAN NANOSECOND AND BREAKS FREE FROM SHACKLES BEFORE A NANO SECOND PASSES
http://i.imgur.com/C6FgEnh.jpg
While traveling ftl surfer is able to map the universe
Surfer is too fast for them, sorry i had to bust the speed scans on you guys wink
^^^I have 4 speed feats right here and these are the ones i have had for pages, i do not know where you got 2 from this(i am not counting the train feat)
I'm ignoring the robot monster one, and I've told you already why (guess you ignored it).
I am disregarding the travelling speed feat as this is not a race (again, I said this already, but you conveniently ignored it).
So out of the four scans, only two were usable as reflex speed feats. Guess you ignored my arguments. No surprises there, although I do like how you keep accusing others of ignoring you when they don't. I even laid them out in a format that was easy to read.
Lol he travels the universe ftl the whole time mapping it, that is perception, he is not just traveling.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11/111099/2989647-surfer+searches+entire+planet.jpg
here he searches the ENTIRE planet in the time it takes strange to say a sentence and a half.
