The quality of a thread is inversely proportional to the number of instances of the letter "z" within.
Neph is correct. The type of drain that is represented by Darth N. and Kreia, et. al. is different in kind from that which other Sith Lords have used. In fact, the KotOR 2 narration from Kreia regarding the drain is strong evidence that Revan is not a user of the drain. The technique in question is an instinctive hunger that operates in the dimension of Force Bonds (or a lack thereof). By comparison, Revan's own well of power has always been described as powerful and self sufficient. It is unlikely that Revan would experience an instinctive hunger for connection, given the place her character holds in the era. (N.B. Revan is the distant father, the self-contained enigma, and earning her approval is the point of much of Kreia's actions, I think.)
From the opposing side, I've yet to see much evidence that Revan is, in fact a user of the drain. Even with the utmost degree of intellectual charity, the best line of argument I've seen is that since Revan is the proximate cause of the assassins' knowledge, then Revan must be their teacher. Next, they argue that every teacher must know the content of what they teach. This line of argument fails on at least two levels. First, Kreia says explicitly that the drain technique cannot be taught. Secondly, there are many instances where a teacher cannot do the thing they teach. No olympic coach can do the specific thing they are teaching, and in fact most olympic coaches do not hold olympic medals.
Neph's right and pretty and you are all wrong.
The so-called Giga-Dain is not an official application, it is fanon invention or terminology to define a Force Drain talent.
Force Drain talents are officially described as follows:-
- Drain Force
- Drain Life
- Death Field
- Deadly Field
Now, let us examine the description of each talent:-
- Drain Force
This power allows the Jedi to draw raw Force energy from a single opponent to him or herself.*
NOTE: This application negatively influences the ability of the target to use the Force as a consequence.
- Drain Life
This power allows the Jedi to drain the life of others to heal him or herself.*
NOTE: This offensive application degrades the physical well-being of the target by harming it.
- Death Field
Death field targets all enemies with a 10-meter radius, draining life to heal the attacking Jedi.*
NOTE: This offensive application degrades the physical well-being of the target by harming it.
- Deadly Field
Bane extinguished his weapon and stood perfectly still, allowing the swarming horde to close in on him as he gathered his strength. He called upon the power of the temple itself, feeding on it to bolster his own abilities as he created a deadly field around his body. It began as a tight circle, but quickly spread outward until it extended to a radius of ten meters, with the Sith Lord at the center. The air within the circumference of the field suddenly became darker, as if the light from the red sun above had been suddenly dimmed.
Cloaked in the shadowy gloom, Bane simply held his ground against the enemy assault. The front ranks of onrushing cultists shrieked in agony as they entered the field, their life essence violently sucked out of their bodies, aging them a thousand years in only a few seconds. Muscles and tendons atrophied instantaneously; their skin withered and shrank, pulling tight
across their bones. Eyes and tongues shriveled, turning them into mummified husks before their desiccated flesh crumbled away, leaving only skeletal remains and a few strands of hair.
The effort of creating an aura of pure dark side energy would have quickly exhausted even Bane.
However, as his enemies fell he was able to draw their essence into himself, feeding on their energies to revitalize his fading strength and reinforcing the field in preparation for the next wave of victims.**
---
I think that Drain Life, Death Field and Deadly Field are variants of the same technique. These are used to siphon life-energy of targets and can kill them.
Darth Bane acquired knowledge of Deadly Field from Revan's holocron. Revan acquired this knowledge from a much ancient practitioner of the dark arts known as Zelashiel the Blasphemer.
I think that Drain Life is also dubbed as Dark Healing. Knights of the Old Republic: Campaign Guide lists Exar Kun, Darth Malak, Darth Traya, Darth Sion and Darth Nihilus as having knowledge of Dark Healing.
Drain Force is used to feed on the raw Force energy from an individual and/or the environment. Knights of the Old Republic: Campaign Guide lists Exar Kun, Revan, and Darth Nihilus as having knowledge of Force Drain.
I think that Revan instinctively performed Drain Force to sustain himself on Malachor V:
He soon discovers the shadowy Malachor V, a planet listed by Mandalorian scholars as "forbidden" to step foot on. The reason for this soon becomes clear as Revan is almost devoured by primal Sith forces on the world's surface. Revan's will allows him to feed on (and not be consumed by) the power of the dark side.***
In addition, Revan fed on the energy of Force Ghost of Meetra Surik to recover from the effects of Drain Life from Emperor Vitiate after the latter attempted this each time. This could be Drain Force since Force Ghost is a manifestation of the Force energy and not a living being which would have life-energy.
In the nutshell, Revan have ample knowledge of Force Drain talents and is capable of utilizing these applications when he feels the need to.
---
Now, I shall decode the actions performed by Darth Nihilus:
Then, when all seems lost, he discovers that his emptiness hungered. The first time, he fed it unconsciously. Draining another being's life is frightening, nauseating, but for a euphoric moment, the memories, the illness, and the hunger disappeared.
This is Drain Life?
Darth Traya indeed teaches the newly christened Darth Nihilus to harness his life-draining gift to radical heights - so effectively, in fact, that Nihilus saps Traya's powers in a calculated double-cross.****
This is Force Drain?
---
As for the explanation offered by Darth Traya, I think that she was being manipulative in her teachings or radically philosophical. If the referred technique cannot be taught, how did she learn it? If she learned it instinctively, then from where and how?
When Darth Traya used the referred technique on the Jedi Masters she attacked, she outright killed them. After the Jedi died, the technique was no longer visible on them. So I really don't get the "feed on the death it causes" part in her statement:
"It is a technique that is almost as old as the Sith themselves…it is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes. It cannot be taught…it can only be gained through instinct, through experiencing its effects, first-hand." (Darth Traya, describing a Force Drain technique)*
The technique is as old as the Sith themselves. See the example of Zelashiel the Blasphemer above for reference.
"Severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes" gives the vibe of Sever Force type action that is also lethal.
It shall be kept in mind that strictly Sever Force talents are not necessarily lethal to the targets. Nomi Sunrider used a Sever Force talent to disrupt Force-sensitivity of Ulic-Qel Droma, though the latter didn't resist this attempt from the former. In addition, Emperor Vitiate used a Sever Force talent to disrupt Force-sensitivity of Lord Dramath in an actual confrontation between the two.
Interestingly, Knights of the Old Republic: Campaign Guide reveals that Darth Nihilus have knowledge of Sever Force talents as well.
However, Darth Traya likely described a variant of Drain Life technique.
---
In conclusion, it seems that Darth Traya explained a variant of Drain Life technique. However, her claim that this variant cannot be taught is questionable because of following reasons:
1. This variant is ancient in its origin, as old as Sith themselves.
2. Somebody likely pioneered Drain Life techniques:
Of all the Force-using sects that explore the dark side, none are more feared throughout the galaxy than the Sith. Through the Sith, the dark side expresses the true nature of life - strong, aggressive, and willing to survive at any cost. If a Sith can endure the physical price of drawing on its power, they deserve to be ascendant. Through their focus on these elements, the Sith have developed terrifying powers, such as the ability to drain a being of its life force, or unleash their hatred as crackling bolts of energy. The Sith Emperor, history's most powerful dark side master, performed a ritual of incredible scope to consume the life energy of every being on his homeworld.*****
3. Knights of the Old Republic: Campaign Guide identified Darth Nihilus' actions as Drain Life related.
4. Force Drain talents can be taught as apparent from the example of transfer of such knowledge from Revan's holocron.
Revan instinctively performed Drain Force on Malachor V but also acquired knowledge of some Force Drain talents from Zelashiel the Blasphemer. Darth Bane, in turn, acquired knowledge of these talents from Revan.
It shall be noted that it is not unusual for prodigiously gifted Force-users to acquire talents instinctively (e.g. Emperor Vitiate).
In the nutshell, it is most likely that Force Drain talents can be taught and also acquired instinctively.
---
References:-
*Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords
**Star Wars: Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil
***Chronicles of the Old Republic
****Knights of the old Republic: Campaign Guide
*****Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia
The Hunger Factor:-
Victim of the Mandalorian Wars, the man who became Nihilus lost everything: his possessions, his loved ones, and the will to live. While illness cannibalizes his body, a vast emptiness devours his humanity. Then when all seems lost, he discovers that his emptiness hungered. The first time he fed it unconsciously. Draining another being's life is frightening, nauseating, but for a euphoric moment, the memories, the illness, and the hunger disappeared.*
Darth Nihilus became an individualistic Force Wound like Meetra Surik in the aftermath of detonation of Mass Shadow Generator superweapon during the battle of Malachor V but his hunger is likely a side-effect of his condition from prolonged exposure to the environment of Malachor V in the aftermath. Darth Nihilus seems to have instinctively learned a Force Drain talent much like Revan on Malachor V.
However, Darth Nihilus isn't exclusive to develop this kind of side-effect:
"He has become obsessed with power and immortality. The dark side is like a cancer inside him; it grows faster than he can feed it. He has consumed an entire world, but he still hungers. And with his hunger comes an all-consuming fear. He has lived a thousand years; he knows he could live many thousands more." (Revan, describing Emperor Vitiate)**
&
Scourge had eagerly accepted, knowing his new position would give him both time and opportunity to find another way to stop the Emperor before his madness and hunger consumed the galaxy.**
&
REVAN COULD FEEL THE EMPEROR FEEDING ON HIM, drawing on his power to sate his endless hunger.**
Emperor Vitiate went as far as to convert some of his followers to immortal beings so he could drain them endlessly to satiate his hunger and grow in power:
Servants of the Hand share their Master's longevity, living untouched by age for centuries under his command. In return, the Emperor draws on his servant's strength in the Force and body to feed his ever-increasing power, leaving the servants withered and frail.***
Most likely, immortality or sorcery is a counter to lethal aspects of Force Drain.
This may also be one of the factors why Emperor Vitiate wanted to consume the entire galaxy, he would become perfect and all-powerful in the aftermath.
The case of Emperor Vitiate indicates that hunger can develop as a side-effect of overwhelming use of Force Drain talents (e.g. Nathema event) and this condition is not exclusive to Darth Nihilus. But Emperor Vitiate remained stable due to his incredible power and immortal condition.
However, Darth Nihilus was unstable, and his hunger began to control and consume him, so he had no option but to feed on others to sustain himself or he would eventually self-destruct.
---
References:-
*Knights of the old Republic: Campaign Guide
**Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan
***Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia
Originally posted by Nephthys
Nah.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
One thing to note about your post, LeGenD: Life Force and the Force have been established to be the same thing, have they not? Wouldn't that make all the variants of Drain a singular category of similar techniques?
I think that authors didn't bother to explain Force Drain talents in proper, therefore the confusion.
Though it is apparent from available data that Force Drain can influence both physical well-being and Force-sensitivity of targets.
You have a point, Force Drain likely represents a spectrum of offensive and healing powers of similar nature. This is why I use the term "Force Drain talents."
Originally posted by NewGuy01
One thing to note about your post, LeGenD: Life Force and the Force have been established to be the same thing, have they not? Wouldn't that make all the variants of Drain a singular category of similar techniques?
Since life can exist without the Force, I doubt it. Similar.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
In Star Wars, life cannot exist without the Force. All living beings have midichlorians in them.Those who are "severed," likely have their midichlorians disrupted.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I'm pretty sure "Death Field" and "Deadly Field" are the exact same thing LeGenD.
Yeah. Really there's just drain, and death field--Which only seem to differ in being an AoE power or a direct one.
Separating Drain force and Drain life doesn't make any sense considering Force energy and life energy are the same thing. #Gamemechs
Originally posted by Zampanó
The quality of a thread is inversely proportional to the number of instances of the letter "z" within.Neph is correct. The type of drain that is represented by Darth N. and Kreia, et. al. is different in kind from that which other Sith Lords have used. In fact, the KotOR 2 narration from Kreia regarding the drain is strong evidence that Revan is not a user of the drain. The technique in question is an instinctive hunger that operates in the dimension of Force Bonds (or a lack thereof). By comparison, Revan's own well of power has always been described as powerful and self sufficient. It is unlikely that Revan would experience an instinctive hunger for connection, given the place her character holds in the era. (N.B. Revan is the distant father, the self-contained enigma, and earning her approval is the point of much of Kreia's actions, I think.)
From the opposing side, I've yet to see much evidence that Revan is, in fact a user of the drain. Even with the utmost degree of intellectual charity, the best line of argument I've seen is that since Revan is the proximate cause of the assassins' knowledge, then Revan must be their teacher. Next, they argue that every teacher must know the content of what they teach. This line of argument fails on at least two levels. First, Kreia says explicitly that the drain technique cannot be taught. Secondly, there are many instances where a teacher cannot do the thing they teach. No olympic coach can do the specific thing they are teaching, and in fact most olympic coaches do not hold olympic medals.
Neph's right
and prettyand you are all wrong.
Dam you.
Revan thirzt of connection and knowledge. Yhea, that'z what I waz talking about.
Revan have more abilitiez than he really need drain healing and dark healing 3 bailituez to one purpuze healing... That'z becaue he he'z a great teacher cappable of devlopped the potential of any ztudent by adapting him to their own ztyle.
Thiz waz an argument in my primitivz Revan light zaber ztyle theoriez to confirm than Revan mazter evry ztylez....
Exept than Revan iz not a zimple olympic coach... Revan like yoda uze force knowledge, to increze their panel of abilitiez or devlopp them. If he iz not the kind of guy to uze one abilitiez, that dozen't mean than he cannot uze it. Yoda have demonztrated a perfect maztery of zome abilitiez at the firzt uze, becauze he uze hiz force knowledge in hiz meditation, and that what give the edge in term of force power aginzt a V.Z againzt plagueiz.
Revan drain are great.
Not giga drain like nihiluz did, juzt a conztent feading on the force and living entitiez in the era (with alzo a great range...) feeding on a zmall portion but on numerouz entitiez, that'z make hiz aura very perceptible, but he did only thiz when he waz darth Revan. They retake the idea in 3.0. But he uze the device becauze hiz drain can juzt increaze hiz power or heal him not bring back the emperor....
Or clazzic drain... and perharp even death field. Darth Revan iz the kind of huy who'z the zuper generalizt. The kind of guy who want to mazter every technic...
Revan iz more drain life where nihiluz iz more force drain.... Evne if Revan uze froce drain too.... Theyr many myzteriouz thing about Darth Revan (nit the 3.0 one...)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I'm pretty sure "Death Field" and "Deadly Field" are the exact same thing LeGenD.
Well I waz editing my mezzage and the flop time out. Zo I'm repozting.
Originally posted by Zampanó
The quality of a thread is inversely proportional to the number of instances of the letter "z" within.Neph is correct. The type of drain that is represented by Darth N. and Kreia, et. al. is different in kind from that which other Sith Lords have used. In fact, the KotOR 2 narration from Kreia regarding the drain is strong evidence that Revan is not a user of the drain. The technique in question is an instinctive hunger that operates in the dimension of Force Bonds (or a lack thereof). By comparison, Revan's own well of power has always been described as powerful and self sufficient. It is unlikely that Revan would experience an instinctive hunger for connection, given the place her character holds in the era. (N.B. Revan is the distant father, the self-contained enigma, and earning her approval is the point of much of Kreia's actions, I think.)
From the opposing side, I've yet to see much evidence that Revan is, in fact a user of the drain. Even with the utmost degree of intellectual charity, the best line of argument I've seen is that since Revan is the proximate cause of the assassins' knowledge, then Revan must be their teacher. Next, they argue that every teacher must know the content of what they teach. This line of argument fails on at least two levels. First, Kreia says explicitly that the drain technique cannot be taught. Secondly, there are many instances where a teacher cannot do the thing they teach. No olympic coach can do the specific thing they are teaching, and in fact most olympic coaches do not hold olympic medals.
Neph's right
and prettyand you are all wrong.
Dam you.
Revan thirzt of connection and knowledge. Yhea, that'z what I waz talking about.
Revan have more abilitiez than he really need drain healing and dark healing 3 bailituez to one purpuze healing... That'z becaue he he'z a great teacher cappable of devlopped the potential of any ztudent by adapting him to their own ztyle.
Thiz waz an argument in my primitivz Revan light zaber ztyle theoriez to confirm than Revan mazter evry ztylez....
Exept than Revan iz not a zimple olympic coach... Revan like yoda uze force knowledge, to increze their panel of abilitiez or devlopp them. If he iz not the kind of guy to uze one abilitiez, that dozen't mean than he cannot uze it. Yoda have demonztrated a perfect maztery of zome abilitiez at the firzt uze, becauze he uze hiz force knowledge in hiz meditation, and that what give the edge in term of force power aginzt a V.Z againzt plagueiz.
Revan drain are great.
Not giga drain like nihiluz did, juzt a conztent feading on the force and living entitiez in the era (with alzo a great range...) feeding on a zmall portion but on numerouz entitiez, that'z make hiz aura very perceptible, but he did only thiz when he waz darth Revan. They retake the idea in 3.0. But he uze the device becauze hiz drain can juzt increaze hiz power or heal him not bring back the emperor....
Or clazzic drain... and perharp even death field. Darth Revan iz the kind of huy who'z the zuper generalizt. The kind of guy who want to mazter every technic...
Revan iz more drain life where nihiluz iz more force drain.... Evne if Revan uze froce drain too.... Theyr many myzteriouz thing about Darth Revan (nit the 3.0 one...)
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I'm pretty sure "Death Field" and "Deadly Field" are the exact same thing LeGenD.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Separating Drain force and Drain life doesn't make any sense considering Force energy and life energy are the same thing. #Gamemechs
Mozt of drainer uze both in the zame time becauze they don't even know than there iz two differentz abiltiez...
Force drain iz more conziztant, it bring more power if you target force uzer.... Becauze there iz vital energy and force energy if you drain force you dizable the power of your opponent, but if you are not a mazter of the drain you will uze more power than you take power to your foe...
It can alzo zerve az life drain, but it'z lezz effectiv than the real life drain.
Of courze force uzer have more vital energy, but that'z nothing compare to there force power, vital energy iz the energy that keep all living being alive zimply. If both energy came from the forc directly... The force manifezt itzelf with different azpectz....
Nihiluz giga drain iz more force drain, if your over drain force enrgy you deztroy the vital energy, more than draining it... In fact Nihiluz, drain an entire planet in the hope to find a force uzer to abzorb thiz energy one force uzer compt more than billionz of non force uzer even if they have alzo force energy and if a part of their vital energy can be converted into force energy.
If hiz Giga drain waz life drain he won't care about force uzer preznece on the planet where he giga drain.... Becauze the vital energy of a normal force uzer (Jedi level) iz only ten time zuperior than a normal human.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I always thought of it as the midichloraians being blocked, since they are the passage between the Force and the life form.
Az I zaid vital energy iz alzo an energy wich came from the force. But that'z not pure force energy---> pure power.
An example of thiz iz the jedi healing, wich iz bazicly feeding on force energy to regenerate cell and vital energy.
Medichlorianz have thiz pmechaniz of brought connexion to the force ---> more vital energy, but they can alzo convert vital energy into force energy.... Thiz iz the point.
But there iz zome life form with juzt a ridiculouz low level of medichlorian. ut each cell have a natural connection to the force, but autmoticaly retranzform it in vital energy... Vital energy iz uze in permance trhough metabolizm etc.... If you are aging that'z becauze you begin to looze connection in the force.