Originally posted by Galan007
Gohan, easily.Janemba was Super Buu-level at most(though I personally believe he was a bit weaker)... And we saw where Super Buu stood in relation to Mystic Gohan.
Originally posted by Galan007i think gohan will win here
Gohan, easily.Janemba was Super Buu-level at most(though I personally believe he was a bit weaker)... And we saw where Super Buu stood in relation to Mystic Gohan.
The thing that makes comparing Super Buu to Janemba tough to call, is Goku's fight happened in the afterlife. Goku never hit full powered SSJ3 because it wasn't meant to be used in the living world.
At SSJ3 fp, he could have one hit destroyed Original Buu, and probably Fatty. Is Super Buu THAT above them that Goku wouldn't be able to even hold his own, like against stage 2 Janemba?
^ It was stated that if Pure Buu were left unchecked, he would eventually destroy the entire universe. ie. Pure Buu="a universal threat." Despite such a bold implication, it was later stated that SSJ3 Goku could have destroyed Pure Buu "in an instant" if he were able to reach full power. This is important because Super Buu was stated to be insurmountably beyond even Goku. So yeah, statements made pertaining to a character's potential threat-level don't impress me at all, unless we actually see this character preform the feat in question.
That said, Janemba was more powerful than SSJ3 Goku. However, the difference between them wasn't so vast as to render Goku's attacks completely ineffectual--he [Goku] actually managed to put up a decent fight. Yet by Goku's own accord, Super Buu was so far beyond him that he felt it pointless to even try and fight him. So even IF we assume Janemba and Super Buu were roughly equal, using SSJ3 Goku as the common denominator between them, Gohan would still effortlessly stomp... Especially if he were fighting "all-out" as the OP states.
It would go something like this:
Mystic Gohan>>>Super Buu~SSJ3 Gotenks~/>Janemba>FPSSJ3 Goku>>>Pure Buu(the potential universal threat.)
Goku was gauging his power against Super Buu's, and realized that Buu was still "far" to powerful for he and Vegeta to defeat.
It's no different than when Goku later said that he could beat Pure Buu "in an instant" at full power. Again: he was gauging his power against Pure Buu's... Same with Fat Buu.
Originally posted by Galan007
^ It was stated that if Pure Buu were left unchecked, he would eventually destroy the entire universe. ie. Pure Buu="a universal threat." Despite such a bold implication, it was later stated that SSJ3 Goku could have destroyed Pure Buu "in an instant" if he were able to reach full power. This is important because Super Buu was stated to be insurmountably beyond even Goku. So yeah, statements made pertaining to a character's potential threat-level don't impress me at all, unless we actually see this character preform the feat in question.That said, Janemba was more powerful than SSJ3 Goku. However, the difference between them wasn't so vast as to render Goku's attacks completely ineffectual--he [Goku] actually managed to put up a decent fight. Yet by Goku's own accord, Super Buu was so far beyond him that he felt it pointless to even try and fight him. So even IF we assume Janemba and Super Buu were roughly equal, using SSJ3 Goku as the common denominator between them, Gohan would still effortlessly stomp... Especially if he were fighting "all-out" as the OP states.
It would go something like this:
Mystic Gohan>>>Super Buu~SSJ3 Gotenks~/>Janemba>FPSSJ3 Goku>>>Pure Buu(the potential universal threat.)
Agreed on everything except what you said about Janemba. Janemba presence was ruining reality in different dimensions. So the fts are there. If he actually concentrated on tearing everything down, I'm pretty sure he would've succeeded.
Originally posted by carver9Perhaps Janemba really could have warped the entire universe if he was concentrated on doing so--but that could have taken him eons for all we know. That's why a character's unseen/potential threat-level=/=a battle feat.
Agreed on everything except what you said about Janemba. Janemba presence was ruining reality in different dimensions. So the fts are there. If he actually concentrated on tearing everything down, I'm pretty sure he would've succeeded.
Originally posted by Galan007
Perhaps Janemba really could have warped the entire universe if he was concentrated on doing so--but that could have taken him eons for all we know. That's why a character's unseen/potential threat-level=/=a battle feat.
Well Goku seemed like it was pretty urgent, to stop Janemba from destroying the universe. The way he said it, if they didn't stop the tournament when they did, the universe would be gone.
Originally posted by SSJGGogetaIn all fairness, Goku said pretty much the same thing about Pure Buu just before they started fighting:
Well Goku seemed like it was pretty urgent, to stop Janemba from destroying the universe. The way he said it, if they didn't stop the tournament when they did, the universe would be gone.
Blanket speechification regarding what a character might be able to do if they aren't stopped, just doesn't cross-over into a tangible battle feat.
Originally posted by Galan007
In all fairness, Goku said pretty much the same thing about Pure Buu just before they started fighting:
Goku: "I better go full throttle...! The entire universe'll be doomed if we lose..."Blanket speechification regarding what a character might be able to do if they aren't stopped, just doesn't cross-over into a tangible battle feat.
Um, you're still missing the point here.
King Kai said the same about Frieza when he fought Goku.
The only difference is that the universe would only be doomed if he lost because their was no one strong enough to oppose the villain after them.
With Janemba, he would have destroyed the universe in less time than it would take Goku to beat Pikkon, which would translate to a universe bust.
That is the context of the statements.
And it is very possible that Kid buu could have destroyed the universe. He fought on par with SSJ3 Goku, and SSJ3 Goku stomped fat Janemba, so Kid Buu > Fat Janemba. In other words, Kid Buu > Universe buster, in terms of power. Plus, Supreme Kai said he'd destroyed galaxies in an instant before.
So, if you read into the context of the statement, then Fat Janemba is a universe buster, as he would have destroyed the universe in the few moments it would have taken Goku to beat Pikkon.
Originally posted by SSJGGogetaThat is your opinion regarding the context of the statements, and you are entitled to it. My point/opinion, however, is that we have no way of confirming this to be incontrovertible fact. As far as I'm concerned, the statement made about Janemba's potential threat-level isn't any different than the statement made about Pure Buu's potential threat-level. I have no doubt that Pure Buu could have eventually destroyed the universe if no one were around to oppose him--but we just don't know how long it would take him to do so. A year? A decade? Eons? There is simply no way to know for sure, ergo it cannot be likened to a battle feat. Imo. 🙂
With Janemba, he would have destroyed the universe in less time than it would take Goku to beat Pikkon, which would translate to a universe bust.That is the context of the statements.
Originally posted by SSJGGogetaNo, no... 1,000 times NO! That line is from a non-canon/fanmade scanlation, and is one of the worst, most horrendously inaccurate translations available. Here is the actual line from the canon VIZ manga:
Plus, Supreme Kai said he'd destroyed galaxies in an instant before.
Supreme Kai: "This Djinn possesses neither reason nor emotion. He exists solely to slaughter and destroy. To strike fear into the hearts of all living things... In just a few years, hundreds of planets were wiped out."
Yes, that is ALL that was canonically said. Like I've told others, though: I own the entire VIZ series, and am literally looking at the pertinent chapter/page as we speak. So if you doubt the validity of what I've posted, I suppose I can take a picture of the page and post it here... /shrug
Originally posted by Galan007
That is your opinion regarding the context of the statements, and you are entitled to it. My point/opinion, however, is that we have no way of confirming this to be incontrovertible fact. As far as I'm concerned, the statement made about Janemba's potential threat-level isn't any different than the statement made about Pure Buu's potential threat-level. I have no doubt that Pure Buu could have eventually destroyed the universe if no one were around to oppose him--but we just don't know how long it would take him to do so. A year? A decade? Eons? There is simply no way to know for sure, ergo it cannot be likened to a battle feat. Imo. 🙂No, no... 1,000 times [b]NO
! That line is from a non-canon/fanmade scanlation, and is one of the worst, most horrendously inaccurate translations available. Here is the actual line from the canon VIZ manga:Supreme Kai: "This Djinn possesses neither reason nor emotion. He exists solely to slaughter and destroy. To strike fear into the hearts of all living things... In just a few years, hundreds of planets were wiped out."
Yes, that is ALL that was canonically said. Like I've told others, though: I own the entire VIZ series, and am literally looking at the pertinent chapter/page as we speak. So if you doubt the validity of what I've posted, I suppose I can take a picture of the page and post it here... /shrug [/B]
No, my opinion has nothing to do with it. Goku was urgent enough to stop the fight, because he stated that Janemba would have destroyed the universe if they didn't do so immediately. This means that he would have destroyed the universe, including them, if they didn't destroy the fight when they did. 👆
You're right about the Buu thing, but Janemba is a different story. Plus, Anime cannon, and Manga cannon are two totally different things. In anime cannon, Garlic Jr. really existed. 👆
Ah, ya got me there. I, of course, didn't make the scan, but I did remember seeing it a while back on here. Thought it was fishy, but I didn't know it was fan-made. However, there are still plenty of supporting feats/statements in the anime, such as Buuhan multiverse busting with a scream.
We have to use anime cannon here, because Janemba was anime movie only. Not manga. So to take manga cannon would be pointless in the first place, because he doesn't exist, therefor has no feats.
Originally posted by SSJGGogetaYeah, it was posted frequently back in the day. I didn't realize just HOW inaccurate it was until I read the VIZ copy, though.
Ah, ya got me there. I, of course, didn't make the scan, but I did remember seeing it a while back on here. Thought it was fishy, but I didn't know it was fan-made.
Originally posted by SSJGGogetaWe have to use anime canon for Janemba, because he only existed in Movie #12. However, we still defer to manga canon for Buu, because he is obviously a canon/manga-based character.
We have to use anime cannon here, because Janemba was anime movie only. Not manga.
Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, it was posted frequently back in the day. I didn't realize just HOW inaccurate it was until I read the VIZ copy, though.We have to use anime canon for Janemba, because he only existed in Movie #12. However, we still defer to manga canon for Buu, because he is obviously a canon/manga-based character.
Yeah, lol. Me neither, but it's still the most common scan I can find, so meh. :/
True, but that makes this two different threads, in that case. It's just simpler to use anime for both characters in this case, especially since Gohan also appeared in the Janemba movie, and displayed base form power capable of one-shotting final form Frieza.
Either way, my point is that Manga Mystic Gohan here, get's crushed like an infant. The only difference in the anime versions though, is that he has a better chance. He'd still get rofl-stomped though by Super Janemba, as anime Goku claimed multiple times to be stronger than Mystic Gohan, and even staved off Buutenks fairly easily.
Either way, Janemba wins. 👆