Well, Ventress didin't know Maul, and she was able to adapt. So were those Jedi.
I'm not denying that Maul and Kenobi could defeat Savage with low or medium difficulty. But it's hard for me to believe, that Maul could stomped Savage that hard in normal circumstances.
And it should be noted, that Maul easily took a clear advantage without using his legs. I suspect, that with his new legs he would be able to stomp Savage as easily as before.
Savage after being trained by Maul for a bit, and with the absence of Maul's enchanted legs, would be able to give Maul a good fight. Thing is Savage's strength isn't as big a factor against Maul because Maul himself is pretty strong. Savage's strength would have a larger effect on someone like Ventress. I don't think Kenobi would take out Savage with low difficulty, medium difficult would be the best result for Kenobi.
Originally posted by McP
^
Nope, Kenobi was disarmed with first strike after bladelock, and hit by the hilt of Savage's sword with another strike.
He was actually disarmed right after looking out for Maul.
Originally posted by McP
But still, his saber was in a close-range of his hand, so if not Maul's reaction, he would be able to pick up his sword.
Exactly. So Opress has never defeated Kenobi on his own.
Originally posted by McP
Anyway, I'm wondering about one thing: is the fact, that Maul stomped Opress one timed bullshit?
Nah. It was legit. Look at how Dooku manhandled Opress in their sparring session. Contrary to common belief, Opress never grew much through his training. He hardly had any training from either Dooku or Maul.
Originally posted by McP
Ventress was able to hold her own against Maul for much longer. Even those random Jedi that Maul and Opress have killed.
That was when Maul was just revived. I'd take Opress over Maul in "Revenge."
Still you're right. I don't see Maul taking out Ventress anywhere near that quickly. It's a clash of style. Ventress could hold her own against Maul for a while through skill. Skill that Opress doesn't have. But that doesn't mean Ventress > Opress or anything. She would really struggle against his strength. And when you add in Opress's monstrous TK she'd defo go down IMO.
Originally posted by McPVentress was able to hold her own against Maul for much longer. Even those random Jedi that Maul and Opress have killed.
Maul has grown more powerful between S4 and S5, that was S4 Maul, S4 Maul can't stomp Savage either, they would just match good.
Originally posted by ILS
Thing is Savage's strength isn't as big a factor against Maul because Maul himself is pretty strong. Savage's strength would have a larger effect on someone like Ventress.
That too. 👆
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Nah. It was legit. Look at how Dooku manhandled Opress in their sparring session. Contrary to common belief, Opress never grew much through his training. He hardly had any training from either Dooku or Maul.
You are still comparing untrained Savage with trained Savage, who has completed the first stage of his training. Dooku can't manhandle any trained Savage's version, that is why he was always escaping from blade lock in that fight, he knows Savage's strength due to their previous training exercises.
Originally posted by Marco1907You are still comparing untrained Savage with trained Savage, who has completed the first stage of his training.
And you still seem to be under this strange delusion that Savage's training took him from a novice to above Dooku level in like 1/2 an episode. Exactly how much training do you think he had in this magic 1/2 episode? Did weeks or months pass in that half episode? Is there something I'm missing?
Even weeks/months are hardly anything for Jedi Training.
Originally posted by Marco1907
Dooku can't manhandle any trained Savage's version,
Irrelevant since Savage was never trained properly.
first and foremost that he isn’t a trained Sith
He’s got barely any training from Dooku.
He’s kind of more magically imbued by Mother Talzin than anything else,
Originally posted by Marco1907
that is why he was always escaping from blade lock in that fight, he knows Savage's strength due to their previous training exercises.
He never even got into blade locks with him in their training sessions. First he was completely evading them, just like he does in their actual fight later. But even when they met blades, facing him 1 on 1 Dooku was relaxed and just easily deflected his blows, turning them aside just like Maul did.
Nothing's changed. The only reason he had trouble against Opress at then end of the episode as supposed to the beginning was that Opress had back up from Ventress:
"His own elegant Makashi simply did not generate the kinetic power to meet Djem So head-to-head. Especially not while defending against a second attacker."
That causes Dooku even more trouble in a confined space.
I meant the second, third, fourth training... You don't think that was the end of his saber training with Dooku right ? They were sparring like hundred times in one week, and in the end Dooku probably understands that he has trouble with Savage's strength.
Look.
0:04 - Dooku avoids from blade lock with Savage
0:06 - Dooku avoids from blade lock with Savage again*
0:13 - Dooku avoids from blade lock with Savage again, and again and finally he had to make blade lock due to Savage's speed and Savage beats him.
You need to understand that both Dooku and Savage are exceptions here, Dooku is the most elegant duelist and Savage is the physically strongest maybe stronger than Anakin and Maul, that is why, because of the big strength gap between Savage and Dooku, Dooku can't beat Savage in a pure saber duel.
Originally posted by Marco1907
I meant the second, third, fourth training... You don't think that was the end of his saber training with Dooku right ? They probably sparred like hundred times in one week, and in the end Dooku probably understand that he has trouble with Savage's strength.
Yeah that would be great, except your completely making up that they had "hundreds of sparring sessions."
I've given you an outright fact coming from the damn creator of the show that "He’s got barely any training from Dooku."
Originally posted by Marco1907
Look.0:04 - Dooku escapes from blade lock with Savage
0:06 - Dooku escapes from blade lock with Savage again*
0:13 - Dooku escapes from blade lock with Savage again, and again and finally he had to make blade lock due to Savage's speed and Savage beats him.
Look yourself on your own video of what it was like before their training:
0:16 Dooku evades Savage's strike.
0:17-0:18 Dooku evades Savage's strike again.
Then even after Dooku trips Opress up and begins trading blows with him again:
0:27-0:28 Dooku eveades Opress's strike once again.
And finally evades him once more at 0:34 when Opress unarmed tries running at him.
So that's clearly just Dooku's style. Nothing to do with him thinking he can't deflect Opress's blows anymore. Of course he will have more trouble deflecting off Savage in a 1 v 1 because:
"His own elegant Makashi simply did not generate the kinetic power to meet Djem So head-to-head. Especially not while defending against a second attacker."
When dealing with a Physical Beast like Skywalker, Maul or Opress, Dooku needs hits with precise timing and at the right pivot point to deflect them perfectly like he was doing against Savage in that training session, and against Skywalker in "Crisis on Naboo.". That's obviously much harder when your attention is diverted between 2 opponents.
Originally posted by ILS
Maul stomped Savage on account of his enchanted legs alongside being much more skilled. He wouldn't be able to pin Savage like that with his prosthetic legs. Plus, Savage was somewhat inexperienced at that point. He wasn't quite the version of himself who fought Plo Koon ect.
Originally posted by ILS
Was it? I seem to remember Maul deeming Savage as his apprentice in that fight, whereas in the Sith Hunters comic Savage was already established as Maul's apprentice.
Originally posted by ILS
Was it? I seem to remember Maul deeming Savage as his apprentice in that fight, whereas in the Sith Hunters comic Savage was already established as Maul's apprentice.
Nope. That comic begins right where Season 4 left off. And Maul calls Savage "brother" in it. Not "apprentice".
@DP
I never said Dooku can't beat ''untrained'' Savage in a saber duel, I said ''trained''.
You are putting that quote from Filoni but you are also ignoring the actual quote from the animation which is ;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3phTvVo0hE
Count Dooku : ''You have completed the first stages of your training, and I am sending you on an assignment to Toydaria.''
Can you explain to me what ''training'' Savage completed here ?
Not to mention, ''barely'' doesn't mean he didn't get any.
Originally posted by ILS
Was it? I seem to remember Maul deeming Savage as his apprentice in that fight, whereas in the Sith Hunters comic Savage was already established as Maul's apprentice.
IIRC only Kenobi called like that in Sith Hunters, without any information, just based on estimation.
Originally posted by Marco1907
@DPI never said Dooku can't beat ''untrained'' Savage in a saber duel, I said ''trained''.
You are putting that quote from Filoni but you are also ignoring the actual quote from the animation which is ;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3phTvVo0hE
Count Dooku : ''You have completed the first stages of your training, and I am sending you on an assignment to Toydaria.''
Can you explain to me what ''training'' Savage completed here ?Not to mention, ''barely'' doesn't mean he didn't get any.
I'm not ignoring anything because there's no contradiction between that and what Filoni said at all. And even if there was Creator's comments mean more than In-Universe Character statements.
First stages in this case is obviously just his first lessons.
I'm not saying his 1 week of training made Zero difference, but there was hardly any difference between "Trained" Savage and "Untrained" Savage. Because he barely had any training.
Do you think if you're a really big guy, and get 1 week's boxing lessons that you're suddenly going to be a contender for heavyweight champion of the world?
Dooku would stomp Trained Savage almost just as easily as he stomped Untrained Savage in a 1 v 1. Trained Savage might just do moderately better at most.