Originally posted by FreshestSlice
lolnoOculus is superior tho
Darkside Warrior and Bounty Hunter's are just mindless thugs without much depth or anything making them remotely likeable. The Lightside versions are intelligent, charming and surprisingly interesting, deep characters who both serve as reflections for the worst aspects of their profession and examples of the nobility it's possible to obtain in them.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Darkside Warrior and Bounty Hunter's are just mindless thugs without much depth or anything making them remotely likeable. The Lightside versions are intelligent, charming and surprisingly interesting, deep characters who both serve as reflections for the worst aspects of their profession and examples of the nobility it's possible to obtain in them.
I played Inquisitor as Dark Side and loved it. Its not my fault those two classes made you feel like nothing more than a bloodthirsty thug.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
So why does this logic not apply when she's matched against the HoT?
The HoT won't be smacked around by Thor's TK and is generally more powerful and a superior combatant as repeatedly stated. The shield would be trouble, like it was in the Vitiate duel (where he did something similar), but she would get through.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Dark Side choices are canon, bro.Point is, Wyellett is demonstrably not as powerful as he claims to be. He believed he could handily overwhelm the Wrath, but was soundly defeated in the end.
Nah, that's not true. And IMO the game seemed to not want you to kill him.
Pretty sure it wasn't a sound defeat, it took time and effort. Regardless, this discussion is on hype, not feats. Trying to lowball Wyellett on showings is ignoring the whole point.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Only by himself.
Well tbf he had just had a good opportunity to compare.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
I don't see anything hinting that he injured Baras, much less humiliated him, only that he was able to steal his lightsaber.And it just so happens Baras got a major boost after that too.
I thought Baras was humiliated when Wyellett took his saber.
It still establishes Wyellett as dang powerful.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
That doesn't make very much sense, though.
In your opinion.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Depends on how relevant you think the gap between them is, I suppose.
In that one has feats and the other doesn't? I'd say large. A very noticeable improvement.
The HoT won't be smacked around by Thor's TK
Well considering Dooku is vastly more impressive than the Hero force-wise, he won't either. 🙂
Regardless, this discussion is on hype, not feats. Trying to lowball Wyellett on showings is ignoring the whole point
Lowball him based on his showings...? Uh, yeah, if Dooku was defeated by Sifo Dyas, he'd have a lot less credibility too
It still establishes Wyellett as dang powerful.
I know, that's the entire point.
In your opinion.
In yours, too.
In that one has feats and the other doesn't? I'd say large. A very noticeable improvement.
I'd disagree. One is a rival of Windu, and so is the other. There's no reason to think there's any significant difference between the two, only that the Sith incarnation is the greater.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well considering Dooku is vastly more impressive than the Hero force-wise, he won't either. 🙂
HoT resisting Sel-Makor and Vitiate indicates stronger defenses than Dooku possesses. Jedi Dooku has no feats to establish that opinion and isn't directly stated to be more powerful and a superior fighter than the Barsen'thor like the Hero is.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Lowball him based on his showings...? Uh, yeah, if Dooku was defeated by Sifo Dyas, he'd have a lot less credibility too
I brought up Wyellett's hype on a specific point about hype. You trying to argue him less powerful than it indicates based on his showings is missing the point of the discussion.
Also, Wrath is much greater than Sifo Dyas. You trying to establish Wyellett as less powerful than Jedi Dooku or Kenobi is ignoring the possibility of the Wrath surpassing those two.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
I know, that's the entire point.
Then I don't know why you feel the need to argue this.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
In yours, too.
I'd suggest that it's more common sense than opinion that the Master's wouldn't be taken quietly. Do they really seem the type?
Originally posted by NewGuy01
I'd disagree. One is a rival of Windu, and so is the other. There's no reason to think there's any significant difference between the two, only that the Sith incarnation is the greater.
Which ignores the possibility of Windu improving as well, and of Vapaad's equalising effects. Windu's level is also unknown at the point Dooku was still a Jedi, so that doesn't establish much. Wasn't Qui-Gon Jinn also a rival of Windu at that point?
Originally posted by Nephthys
I played Inquisitor as Dark Side and loved it. Its not my fault those two classes made you feel like nothing more than a bloodthirsty thug.
As for Nox, considering half of the decisions are talking or Lightning, that's more of an underlying issue. Probably something to do with your desire to electrocute all things that annoy you.
Originally posted by NephthysWhich ignores the possibility of Windu improving as well, and of Vapaad's equalising effects. Windu's level is also unknown at the point Dooku was still a Jedi, so that doesn't establish much. Wasn't Qui-Gon Jinn also a rival of Windu at that point?
No it seems the quote of Qui-Gon consistently sparring equally with Windu was made up.
We know Windu was head and shoulders above all other Jedi just based on the fact that ONLY Dooku and Yoda could defeat him in the Jedi Order.
We also know Dooku was head and shoulders above all other Jedi: "Most learned in the ways of the Force.." "The Temple's Strongest Student.." "One of the Most Powerful Jedi in the Order's 25,000 year history.."
That's all related to Force Powers. As far as Saber prowess goes, I only see Jedi Dooku being superior to Sith Dooku tbh. Sith Dooku's only downer seemed to be his age. Go back 10-15 years and he'll clearly be physically stronger and have greater stamina, whilst still having spent 6 decades Mastering Makashi to it's Apex.
Not to mention AOTC Kenobi KNEW based on what he knows of Jedi Dooku, that he stands no chance against him at all. Heck even Padme seemed to know this: "We're going to need help.." She said that with Anakin, Obi-Wan and a few Clone Troopers there. It was clearly common knowledge that Jedi Dooku was amongst the Elite 3 Jedi of the Jedi Order.
Except Dooku's cunning and combat tactics are unmatched, I don't think anyone can outsmart him as a combatant.
Dooku is too close in command of the Force and likely has a great deal more refinement than Thor can claim.
Not to mention Dooku's biggest weakness in a fight doesn't apply with this variant.
Barsen'thor is a noted and much admired genius. And I wasn't talking about tactics (Revan btw), just plain combat ability. Her feats are pretty insane. As a padawan with limited experience she defeated Nalen Raloch who'd gained decades of combat training, experience and Jedi techniques instantly from Rajivari himself. Even at that point she was said to embody true skill. And her defeating Vivicar while so weakened while he was so amped indicates an immense amount of skill and combat prowess, or overwhelming power.
The Barsen'thor is more powerful and has abilities Dooku hasn't displayed, such as blocking sabers with a barrier, healing and telepathy. Her TK is on another level to his. Jedi Dooku can't casually smash through the blast door she did, he can't toss a bus-sized chunk of metal like a paper cup like she did, he can't shatter an impenetrable rakatan vaultdoor like her.
But he's less powerful than is older self and has no feats. Thor is greater than Sith Dooku, let alone his unestablished Jedi counterpart who is inferior.
I would suggest re-reading Dark Rendezvous, I would also suggest re-reading AOTC.
Dooku is much more powerful than you are insinuating and is noted to be close to Yoda, the most powerful light sider of all time by TCW.
Oh and what hints we do have state that his force techniques not his power, increased with the Dark Side.
Why would either be relevant to this version of Dooku?
Less close in this thread. Plus Sidious, Yoda's equal, could ragdoll TCW Dooku. So the gap in power is larger than you think.
Well he obviously gained darkside techniques and access to Sith lore and training from Sidious, or force techniques in general. Plus an extra decade or whatever of time he could improve in.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Jedi Dooku can't casually smash through the blast door she did, he can't toss a bus-sized chunk of metal like a paper cup like she did,
You sure about that:
^ 0:10-0:21
Originally posted by NephthysWell he obviously gained darkside techniques and access to Sith lore and training from Sidious, or force techniques in general. Plus an extra decade or whatever of time he could improve in.
I would think at Dooku's age each decade would make him weaker, not stronger. And besdies from turning to the Dark Side and learning to utilize FL, there's hardly any evidence of him having much training from Sidious, access to Sith Lore and continually improving over the 10-15 years he was a Sith.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
You sure about that:^ 0:10-0:21
Jedi Dooku. And yes.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I would think at Dooku's age each decade would make him weaker, not stronger. And besdies from turning to the Dark Side and learning to utilize FL, there's hardly any evidence of him having much training from Sidious, access to Sith Lore and continually improving over the 10-15 years he was a Sith.
Dooku is noted to have the body of a man half his age. The Force is a more powerful factor than the body. So Dooku's enhanced power would still make him superior imo and he is directly stated to be greater as a Sith. Would you also say Sidious got weaker each decade btw? IIRC Dooku gained Anddeddu's holocron and he did show some knowledge of Sorcery when he created that bizarre doppelganger. He's reasonably well versed in Sith abilities.
Of course, the majority of this is speculation based on people's opinion's of Jedi Dooku's level relative to his greater one.
HoT resisting (weakened) Vitiate (despite being dominated by normal!Vitiate) indicates stronger defenses than Dooku possesses.
By that line of logic, Dooku not being dominated by Yoda ala Ventress indeed indicates defenses at least as good as the Hero's.
Also, Wrath is much greater than Sifo Dyas.
You know that's not my point.
I'd suggest that it's more common sense than opinion that the Master's wouldn't be taken quietly. Do they really seem the type?
I'd suggest that it's more common sense than opinion that 1 PC < 8 PC's.
Wasn't Qui-Gon Jinn also a rival of Windu at that point?
No more so than Saesee Tiin.
No one in the Order sans Yoda and Dooku were able to defeat Mace, ever, period.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Jedi Dooku. And yes.
I know we're arguing Jedi Dooku, but I only have showings for Sith Dooku, and besides you were saying those feats were beyond even Sith Dooku.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Dooku is noted to have the body of a man half his age.
You can't honestly take that completely literally. Even if it was literal, then 10-15 years earlier he likely would have had the body of a man in his 30's instead of 40's.
Just because he's in great condition for his age doesn't make him immune to aging.
Originally posted by Nephthys
The Force is a more powerful factor than the body. So Dooku's enhanced power would still make him superior imo and he is directly stated to be greater as a Sith.
Yeah but if he's 10-15 years older "physically" but only moderately more powerful in the Force, then I'd personally give his younger self the edge in Sabers.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Would you also say Sidious got weaker each decade btw? IIRC Dooku gained Anddeddu's holocron and he did show some knowledge of Sorcery when he created that bizarre doppelganger. He's reasonably well versed in Sith abilities.
I personally think ROTS Sidious (in his 60's) would take out ROTJ Palpatine (in his 80's) in a direct fight. Despite his Knowledge of the Dark Side probably being greater in ROTJ.
Of course this is the Ultimate Master of the Dark Side, so it wouldn't surprise me if his Mastery more than compensated for his aging.
I would question the combat related knowledge Dooku gained from that holocron considering his fights against Yoda before and after attaining that Holocron.