Originally posted by dadudemonyou're assuming overtime when he said 2 jobs. it could be 30 and 30 which would give him no over time.
At one point in my life, I worked 60 hour work weeks. My average pay was $16 an hour due to the overtime. I had more money than I could possibly spend without blowing it on silly things like expensive mid-life crisis cars.I just can't buy the idea that someone is barely able to pay their basic bills, in the US, working 60 hour work weeks. Even in Manhattan, as long as you are willing to have 1 roommate, you can live off of 60 hour work-weeks and still have change. 🙂
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygonit really varies from place to place. for instance i live in the south right now and it's easy as hell to get by here even on minimum wage cause the living expenses are so cheap. when i lived in south florida minimum wage was damn near the same as it is here and yet the living expenses were way higher. minimum wage down there was 7 something and yet a shitty apartment could easily run you 800 a month. throw in utilities, transportation, school and food and you could very easily find yourself strapped.
Maybe you are overspending, or buying things that you want that go over your budget.It's impossible to live in poverty with the minimum wage in the US.
Even the lowest income earner SHOULD be able to buy his/her NEEDS easily, considering the US has one of the lowest prices for consumable goods like foods, even with tex.
Originally posted by dadudemon
But what happens if everyone is guaranteed a living wage of $25,000 a year, $50,000 for married couples? Believe it or not, the guaranteed living wage idea is a libertarian idea and it has been successfully tested. So what happens if we replace welfare with the guaranteed living wage idea? The details of that system have a person using a "graduated" reduction in benefits, depending on how much money you make. Some have suggested locality pay (so it would be less than 25K in Arkansas but much more in Hawaii, for example) adjustments to this minimum living wage idea.
👆
Always been a fan of this.
Originally posted by red g jacks
you're assuming overtime when he said 2 jobs. it could be 30 and 30 which would give him no over time.
True. And this is likely the scenario that he was in. And how do you make time to interview for other jobs if you whole day is taken up? Simple: you don't sleep until you have a definitive interview and you take time off from one job.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Do you know more about that idea? I feel as though my knowledge of that idea is still too sparse to comfortably talk about it.
I know a little bit about the topic, but I am by no means an expert. There are many different implementation ideas as well, and like you said there's libertarians just as much as left wing and right wing groups that promote this.
There are a couple main reasons why I favour a system like this and that's a) to take the strain and stress of having to fight for your social security off anyone, thereby freeing people to pursue other endeavours, whether paid or not b) to fight the stigma of being on welfare and c) to reduce bureaucracy and make the system more efficient.
I think the system you described would most fall under what is called a "basic income" (i.e. every citizen gets a payment of a certain amount regardless of any other situation they are in, including millionaires). That is also the system I favour, because it would simplify the delivery of the money, and decrease the need for oversight, that is whether someone is actually eligible to get support, etc.
Over the amount that everyone gets, I also favour a flat tax, something between 40-50% on all income (regardless of whether it is capital gains, wage, inheritance, etc.)
The ramifications of a true basic income are not well understood though. It seems good to me, but perhaps there are big issues that would come up in that system as well (for one it may be possible that the stigma of not working, and the valuing of careers over everything, is an important part of a functioning economy, but I am not so sure it is)
Originally posted by Bardock42
I know a little bit about the topic, but I am by no means an expert. There are many different implementation ideas as well, and like you said there's libertarians just as much as left wing and right wing groups that promote this.There are a couple main reasons why I favour a system like this and that's a) to take the strain and stress of having to fight for your social security off anyone, thereby freeing people to pursue other endeavours, whether paid or not b) to fight the stigma of being on welfare and c) to reduce bureaucracy and make the system more efficient.
I think the system you described would most fall under what is called a "basic income" (i.e. every citizen gets a payment of a certain amount regardless of any other situation they are in, including millionaires). That is also the system I favour, because it would simplify the delivery of the money, and decrease the need for oversight, that is whether someone is actually eligible to get support, etc.
Over the amount that everyone gets, I also favour a flat tax, something between 40-50% on all income (regardless of whether it is capital gains, wage, inheritance, etc.)
The ramifications of a true basic income are not well understood though. It seems good to me, but perhaps there are big issues that would come up in that system as well (for one it may be possible that the stigma of not working, and the valuing of careers over everything, is an important part of a functioning economy, but I am not so sure it is)
This is very fascinating. I am with you on the flat tax idea, too, but not as steep...but maybe the cost of true universal healthcare, basic income, etc. would require a flat tax of something like 40%. But if everyone was guaranteed a certain level of basic income, the flat tax wouldn't hit the poor and the middle class wouldn't have to worry about passing an income bracket. It would also allow people to plan more responsibly. It also means people wouldn't get depressed and kill themselves when they lost their jobs as a primary income earner for their family (it happened far too often post 2008 crash...and that's sad).
I want to know more about this. As a fan of a flat tax, it is not too much of a stretch to jump to a basic income concept.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Poor people are poor in America cause they refuse to work. The opportunities are endless here. Legal Immigrants come here and become millionaires. Why? Cause they work and don't sit on their asses with government hand outs. How hard is it to wake up and go to work. I mean really?
Majority of legal immigrants have completed tertiary/post-graduate education or certificates of specialization.
Hence, companies will prefer these persons who are competitive and know what they are doing.
Though it all goes back to laziness to complete a college degree.
Maybe it has something to do with the focus of universities/colleges on co-curricular activities instead of academics, like sports and arts.
Or maybe it's a culture thing.
Originally posted by Bardock42
👆Always been a fan of this.
Agree, here in USA there really does need to be some sort of FICA supplemental wage to make up the difference from real pay to living wage pay. Perhaps FICA would have to be raised on sales/service of 12.5% and employee/employer raised to 12.5%.
Could get rid of unemployment insurance and welfare programs too. Maybe not Medicaid and Foodstamps. And it could be like the Medicare system of payments where higher cost states residents get more money and lesser cost of living states get less.
Do that and cut the corporate tax rate to 10% with an alternate minimume corporate tax of 1%, sorry GE nor more getting billions in a tax refund anymore. Pay your fairshare.
And for those who are able bodied and able minded that can not find a job, these folks would be part of a labor pool to clean up the water shed and trained to be construction workers for plumbing, (very antiquated systems that need upgrading) and to help get electricity underground (many ice storms causing power lines to go down, along with various weather events). These projects are shovel ready.
If not able bodied/minded; go on disablility which should also be on a living wage depending on geographical area.
there will always be people who abuse the system but this shouldnt make the system seem any less relevant than it is. The system is obviously not perfect. There are people that should have access to benefits whom can't, because of technicalities and there are people that bleed the system dry just because they can. Personally, i view public assistance as an evolution of the times. It reminds us that we are a community. Those of us whom are capable and have success can share it with others that have fallen on hard times or legitimately can't support themselves.
It's frustrating to see see people abuse the system while others who really need it are denied the same benefits but that doesn't mean there aren't people receiving the benefits that really need it.
Out of all the the resources of public taxes that are being wasted in the economy, welfare is the least of my worries and complaints. I don't mind other citizens receiving tax dollars. It's the money that's being pocketed and wasted on cronyism by politicians that bother me,