Originally posted by BackFire
You understand the stock market crash that started the recession happened while Bush was still president, yes? Before Obama even took office.
So, Obama was not competent enough to deal with the bad situation he was given? That doesn't sound like the "best contemporary president (economically)".
One of the biggest problems with Obama and his followers is that they don't take responsibility, and try to blame everything on Bush. When are you guys going to man-up?
Originally posted by BackFire
You understand the stock market crash that started the recession happened while Bush was still president, yes? Before Obama even took office.
Shakya has made it quite clear that he doesn't like Bush, either. He's not a fan of Dems. or Reps.
The economy was very good during Bush...it just took a dump towards the end.
Edit - And Bush inherited the .com crash.
Slightly off topic but I wrote a huge long-ass paper on the recession in 2010. From my research, basically, Bush was partially at fault for the 2008 crash. Some want to assign "majority at fault" and others "very slightly at fault" but there is one thing many economists agree on: Bush was partially at fault for the crash.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
One of the biggest problems with Obama and his followers is that they don't take responsibility, and try to blame everything on Bush. When are you guys going to man-up?
lol
👆
It only takes a bit of research to see how hopeful I was for Obama to take office based on his 2008 Campaign Platform. And then it takes only another 2 years after he takes office before I changed my tune. I didn't vote for him nor would I have, but many of his promises are what I wanted. So, yeah, I took my medicine, already, with Obama. I admitted I was wrong about him.
Originally posted by BackFire
You understand the stock market crash that started the recession happened while Bush was still president, yes? Before Obama even took office.
As if it was Bush's fault for causing the stock market crash. This is whats funny about liberals. The blame the repulicans for "crashing the stock market" then take credit for its recovery.
When the facts are liberals crashed the market through sub prime lending and the brain children of this was Clinton and Barney Frank.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
As if it was Bush's fault for causing the stock market crash. This is whats funny about liberals. The blame the repulicans for "crashing the stock market" then take credit for its recovery.When the facts are liberals crashed the market through sub prime lending and the brain children of this was Clinton and Barney Frank.
I remember reading that artical back in 2011, pretty sure it was posted here. Reading it again, it still seems like the author is blaming the government in total, both the Clinton and Bush admin.
-"Despite Frank's effort to make this seem like a partisan issue, it isn't. The Bush administration was just as guilty of this error as the Clinton administration."
-"In the end, it was a colossal policy error by Congress and two presidential administrations. Frank admitted this in the Kudlow interview above. To his credit, Frank recognized his error by 2007, but by that time it was too late."
Second link doesn't work; I get this: The page you requested has either moved or been deleted.
Originally posted by Robtard
I remember reading that artical back in 2011, pretty sure it was posted here. Reading it again, it still seems like the author is blaming the government in total, both the Clinton and Bush admin."Despite Frank's effort to make this seem like a partisan issue, it isn't. The Bush administration was just as guilty of this error as the Clinton administration."
"In the end, it was a colossal policy error by Congress and two presidential administrations. Frank admitted this in the Kudlow interview above. To his credit, Frank recognized his error by 2007, but by that time it was too late."
Second link doesn't work; I get this: The page you requested has either moved or been deleted.
According to most here its Bush's complete fault for the collapse and Obama is the savior. Complete horse shit.
Here is the article for the link that does not work.
THE PRIVATE SECTOR got us into this mess. The government has to get us out of it."
That's Barney Frank's story, and he's sticking to it. As the Massachusetts Democrat has explained it in recent days, the current financial crisis is the spawn of the free market run amok, with the political class guilty only of failing to rein the capitalists in. The Wall Street meltdown was caused by "bad decisions that were made by people in the private sector," Frank said; the country is in dire straits today "thanks to a conservative philosophy that says the market knows best." And that philosophy goes "back to Ronald Reagan, when at his inauguration he said, 'Government is not the answer to our problems; government is the problem.' "
In fact, that isn't what Reagan said. His actual words were: "In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." Were he president today, he would be saying much the same thing.
Because while the mortgage crisis convulsing Wall Street has its share of private-sector culprits -- many of whom have been learning lately just how pitiless the private sector’s discipline can be -- they weren't the ones who "got us into this mess." Barney Frank's talking points notwithstanding, mortgage lenders didn't wake up one fine day deciding to junk long-held standards of creditworthiness in order to make ill-advised loans to unqualified borrowers. It would be closer to the truth to say they woke up to find the government twisting their arms and demanding that they do so - or else.
The roots of this crisis go back to the Carter administration. That was when government officials, egged on by left-wing activists, began accusing mortgage lenders of racism and "redlining" because urban blacks were being denied mortgages at a higher rate than suburban whites.
The pressure to make more loans to minorities (read: to borrowers with weak credit histories) became relentless. Congress passed the Community Reinvestment Act, empowering regulators to punish banks that failed to "meet the credit needs" of "low-income, minority, and distressed neighborhoods." Lenders responded by loosening their underwriting standards and making increasingly shoddy loans. The two government-chartered mortgage finance firms, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, encouraged this "subprime" lending by authorizing ever more "flexible" criteria by which high-risk borrowers could be qualified for home loans, and then buying up the questionable mortgages that ensued.
All this was justified as a means of increasing homeownership among minorities and the poor. Affirmative-action policies trumped sound business practices. A manual issued by the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston advised mortgage lenders to disregard financial common sense. "Lack of credit history should not be seen as a negative factor," the Fed's guidelines instructed. Lenders were directed to accept welfare payments and unemployment benefits as "valid income sources" to qualify for a mortgage. Failure to comply could mean a lawsuit.
As long as housing prices kept rising, the illusion that all this was good public policy could be sustained. But it didn't take a financial whiz to recognize that a day of reckoning would come. "What does it mean when Boston banks start making many more loans to minorities?" I asked in this space in 1995. "Most likely, that they are knowingly approving risky loans in order to get the feds and the activists off their backs . . . When the coming wave of foreclosures rolls through the inner city, which of today's self-congratulating bankers, politicians, and regulators plans to take the credit?"
Frank doesn't. But his fingerprints are all over this fiasco. Time and time again, Frank insisted that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were in good shape. Five years ago, for example, when the Bush administration proposed much tighter regulation of the two companies, Frank was adamant that "these two entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not facing any kind of financial crisis." When the White House warned of "systemic risk for our financial system" unless the mortgage giants were curbed, Frank complained that the administration was more concerned about financial safety than about housing.
Now that the bubble has burst and the "systemic risk" is apparent to all, Frank blithely declares: "The private sector got us into this mess." Well, give the congressman points for gall. Wall Street and private lenders have plenty to answer for, but it was Washington and the political class that derailed this train. If Frank is looking for a culprit to blame, he can find one suspect in the nearest mirror.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, Obama was not competent enough to deal with the bad situation he was given? That doesn't sound like the "best contemporary president (economically)".
Maybe. That's not really relevant to what I said. I didn't say he was the best contemporary president. The OP did. I didn't make the thread.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
One of the biggest problems with Obama and his followers is that they don't take responsibility, and try to blame everything on Bush. When are you guys going to man-up?
Don't be stupid. I'm not saying things that are for Obama or against Bush, here. I'm not blaming Bush for the crash, simply saying that it happened while he was in office, and you seemed to be ignoring that by saying that the economy was great under Bush. Sure, it was good for most of the time he was President, except for that one time, but that probably doesn't count, since Obama was almost in office.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
As if it was Bush's fault for causing the stock market crash. This is whats funny about liberals. The blame the repulicans for "crashing the stock market" then take credit for its recovery.When the facts are liberals crashed the market through sub prime lending and the brain children of this was Clinton and Barney Frank.
Jesus, you guys really get pissy when someone posts historical facts, here. Read above. I'm not blaming Bush for anything, simply saying that the crash occurred while he was in office. Blaming Bush for the crash, that'd just be silly, wouldn't it? Just like I'm sure if there was an enormous economic crash you guys wouldn't attempt to blame it totally on Obama or anything.
I've recently been presented with enough data that I'm now tentatively democrat on economic issues, despite philosophically being economically libertarian. More than anything, though, I think the economy is an unsolvable puzzle for any one person, corporation, or governmental entity. The economy can be influenced in occasionally tangible ways by government, but rarely predictably so, which is the important part. The 2008 crash was going to happen regardless of who was President, and the next guy (in this case, Obama) was going to have a tough, uphill battle to recovery that wouldn't please everyone.
Blame and praise probably could be assigned in retrospect. But to think that either Bush or Obama had or has a chance in hell of righting the ship from their office, or are able to fully control how their policies affect the global economy, seems a bit naive to me. We believe the narratives we want to. Sometimes the harder decision is realizing that the truth is too complicated to fit within the two-party narrative.
As a result of all this, I vote almost exclusively on other issues. Social, environmental, foreign policy and military, etc. There are no guarantees regardless, but in those areas there's a much greater chance that seeing something you want (for example: lowered greenhouse emissions, gay marriage, etc.) will actually have the intended affect.
In any case, to the OP's initial point, it doesn't mean much to me because all I see is "here's who sat at this desk while the economy recovered, largely on its own." Anything more than that, and I'm immediately skeptical of the person's biases.
Originally posted by Robtard
As a Moderate Republican, I can say that Obama is still a better President as a whole than GW Bush was, despite his Obama-flaws
As a white, American Citizen, Male, who owns property (constitutionally, I am a highly qualified resident of the US) I think Obama is worse than Bush only because Bush didn't lie about being a warmongerer.
Originally posted by dadudemon
As a white, American Citizen, Male, who owns property (constitutionally, I am a highly qualified resident of the US) I think Obama is worse than Bush only because Bush didn't lie about being a warmongerer.
Very odd thing to say, especially the first part. The Obama lying/warmonger is arguable.