Originally posted by carthage
Jaina could handle Plagueis for a bit, but she'd lose due to his superior power. Mara would get stomped by Plagueis, and would lose to Maul. Sidious can hold off Luke while his wife and niece fall to the Sith
The last time Luke and Sidious dueled, it didn't take too long.
The first one going down is the one Luke fights.
Originally posted by Q99
The disabilities are why he couldn't win and she ended up having the edge in the battle, but he also specifically has a force ability to ignore all pain, could affect blood flow and organ performance... and he had also received medical attention, and Jaina had prior wounds by the time of the final clash too.Heck, the prior wounds were from *their previous clash* (wherein Jaina had Luke disguising her, but that was her sole advantage, and that was when she took his arm, and he hit her with force lightning). Jaina was the one who inflicted the wounds to begin with, and if she hadn't been fast enough and good enough to do so, it wouldn't have happened.
So, yea, Jaina had some non-physical assistance in the first clash and was able to keep up with his speed well enough to take an arm, and in the second both were wounded from the first, him more-so, but with some treatment and force abilities that allowed him to be less affected than most anyone in the same place, and no more outside edges.
Also on the disguise thing in the first clash- Jaina shot at Caedus, wounding him, the duel started, Caedus was surprised with just how good his foe was as they exchanged kicks, then he 'saw' that it was 'Luke.'
Jaina was responsible for every last one of his wounds, and the help she received was fairly limited, and he received medical treatment in between fights and had ways of minimizing the effects of wounds.
But you make it sound like losing an arm is a minor fatigue. Her combat showings against Caedus don't prove anything here in this case where she is matched with Plagueis. His knowledge in the force and raw power are just too much for her.
The help she received was limited yet sufficient enough for her to gain major advantages over Caedus.
Originally posted by carthage
She admitted inferiority in the force against Caedus, and picked the tunnels to restrict his movement 👆
Well of course Caedus is more powerful but Mara Jade overcame that difference with combat tactics and excellent fighting skill. Caedus didn't kill her via skill, power or anything inbetween, he had to use a poisoned syringe to kill her, in every regard she kicked his ass.
Originally posted by Sinious
But you make it sound like losing an arm is a minor fatigue. Her combat showings against Caedus don't prove anything here in this case where she is matched with Plagueis. His knowledge in the force and raw power are just too much for her.The help she received was limited yet sufficient enough for her to gain major advantages over Caedus.
Raw power has hardly defeated her in almost every duel she has fought in. Why? Because she uses tactics like an assassin and fights like a weapon master.
Plagueis is certainly more powerful but Jaina is second to none when it comes to combat tactics and planning. Her lightsaber skill was confirmed by her twin himself to be at a masterful degree and let's not forget that FOTJ puts her very close to her Uncle in lightsaber skill.
Originally posted by Angelalex242
Well, if ROTS Sidious can move so fast as to fade in and out of reality, and DE Sidious is that much better, and Luke is even better still...Flash stepping seems an accurate term.
Firstly Being Better does not necessarily equate Being Faster.
Secondly if Sidious was moving faster than Skywalker can even perceive, then how was it that Fisto managed to intercept a few strikes of Sidious's?
That's the logic of it not adding up. Now here's the canonicity issue of it:
1. G and T Canon >> C-Canon.
2. Neither G or T Canon depict any such speed where other Jedi/Sith can not even see Sidious move.
3. Anakin never even sees Sidious fight in the damn film itself!
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Firstly Being Better does not necessarily equate Being Faster.Secondly if Sidious was moving faster than Skywalker can even perceive, then how was it that Fisto managed to intercept a few strikes of Sidious's?
Eyes can be deceitful, some people, unfortunately don't understand this, Dooku was dueling with 3 nightsister while he was ''blind''... That is why, force users rely on their force senses not their eyes.
Originally posted by Marco1907
Eyes can be deceitful, some people, unfortunately don't understand this, Dooku was dueling with 3 nightsister while he was ''blind''... That is why, force users rely on their force senses not their eyes.
^ Yep. And yet people continually use the fact that Mace and Sidious seemed like blurs to Skywalker, as apparent proof that Mace and Sidious would Speed Blitz Skywalker.
Originally posted by Angelalex242
Then you have stunts like wielding '1000 lightsabers' for GM Luke, and you realize how fast they're going.
Novels are full of very colorful speed descriptions. Yet the evidence in G and T Canon is severely lacking.
Originally posted by Angelalex242
That is because you cannot represent Jedi Speed Feats well with live action. There's only so fast normal humans can go. The best you can do is Matrix style Shenanigans.Even Palpatine doesn't move like he should in live action. Ian McDirmid just isn't that good.
Except T-Canon isn't Live Action. It's animated.
They've always managed to represent Superman and the Flash fighting at super speeds. Don't see why that would be so difficult for George Lucas- The guy who reinvented special effects.