Nah, your underestimation of Luke is pretty funny bro. For the record, Obi-Wan being who he is, I don't think he'd finish anyone in three seconds.
Furthermore Vader muses in Shadows of the Empire that while it had been a test, he had actively tried to defeat Luke on Bespin, but he was unexpectedly able to hold his ground. He also notes the battle was the greatest challenge he'd had since he fought Kenobi, for what it's worth.
ESB Luke's training is incomplete, but he's a fairly competent warrior. He's somewhat outclassed here, but he'll do no worse than he did against Vader.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Nah, your underestimation of Luke is pretty funny bro. For the record, Obi-Wan being who he is, I don't think he'd finish anyone in three seconds.
😬
You mean my "supposed" underestimation of OT Luke?
Well I guess you can laugh at me and Lucas together then. Seen as he's called even ROTJ Luke as only half trained, let alone ESB Luke. I'm curious where people seem to think Luke got all this amazing Jedi Combat skills from in 3-4 years with only a few weeks of formal training.
ANH Kenobi was stalemating Vader. Vader casually put Luke on his ass after their first blade lock (first lock after a couple of strikes).
A couple of years ago the idea of ESB Luke being any kind of challenge to any formidable Jedi would have been outright laughable on these boards. Not sure what's changed (apart from the people here).
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well I guess you can laugh at me and Lucas together then. Seen as he's called even ROTJ Luke as only half trained, let alone ESB Luke.
You still after over a year have yet to provide a quote. The only similar one I can think of is, iirc, contextually referring to ESB, not ROTJ.
I'm curious where people seem to think Luke got all this amazing Jedi Combat skills from in 3-4 years with only a few [months? weeks?] of formal training.
Dunno. Darth Bane had something like a year of formal training and he turned out alright.
Perhaps Kenobi and Yoda are just that good as teachers, and Luke is just that much of a natural. Either way, he has feats to back him up.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
You still after over a year have yet to provide a quote. The only similar one I can think of is, iirc, contextually referring to ESB, not ROTJ.Dunno. Darth Bane had something like a year of formal training and he turned out alright.
Perhaps Kenobi and Yoda are just that good as teachers, and Luke is just that much of a natural. Either way, he has feats to back him up.
He also self trained and yeah, Luke has a ridiculous learning curve, hence why he was able to advanced so quickly and by ROTJ he was a fully trained Jedi Knight, only thing left for him to do was go and confront Vader.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
You still after over a year have yet to provide a quote. The only similar one I can think of is, iirc, contextually referring to ESB, not ROTJ.
I've provided it numerous times actually. And I provide the source pretty much every time: ROTJ AUDIO COMMENTARY- SCENE WHERE LUKE VISITS YODA.
My computer's f***ed right now and I'm typing from my phone so will provide it AGAIN when I have access to a working computer.
And yes ILS also tried to pull that crap saying "it sounds like he's talking about ESB Luke". But that's just seriously reaching and frankly in denial, seen as it's the ROTJ Audio commentary and Lucas is clearly referring to Luke at the current point in time.
I've also pointed out Dave Filoni's views on OT Luke where he thinks any PT era Council Member would kick even ROTJ Luke's butt.
So Honestly it's perfectly fine if you want to LOL at my "Lowballing" of OT Luke. Because they're not even my views. I'm just saying it how it is within the highest ranks of official canon (old and new, Legends and Disney).
So by all means I'll stand next to Lucas and Filoni and you can LOL at the 3 of us lowballing OT Luke.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERKind of creepy that you're referencing me like this tbh. Plus there's nothing wrong with being skeptical about such a quote when you haven't seen the material yourself and, at face value, it does sound like it's referencing ESB Luke, because he did cut his training from Yoda short and then go and face Vader.
And yes ILS also tried to pull that crap saying "it sounds like he's talking about ESB Luke". But that's just seriously reaching and frankly in denial, seen as it's the ROTJ Audio commentary and Lucas is clearly referring to Luke at the current point in time.
"In coming back to see Yoda we have to figure out Luke's training and the fact that he never finished his training and obviously now he's got a big question he wants answered. There is a point where the hero has to be left on his own 2 feet without anyone there to help him. And you can sort of have him be in a different place for something, but at some point you have to say now all the props have been taken away and he has to face the evil monster alone. In this case the scene established that the evil monster is actually his Father, and he's going to have to do it on his own, and that he's not really equipped to do it. He was too impatient, he didn't finish his studies, and now he's going to be HALF Trained to face a difficult physical and emotional challenge."
George Lucas, Return of the Jedi Audio Commentary. Scene where Luke visits Yoda.
This is the quote that DP is talking about.
I'll promptly refute his argument like I did the last time I saw it:
Originally posted by NemeBro
That quote establishes that the challenge isn't just physical, but emotional. Furthermore, at no point does Lucas say "Luke sucks more than Vader", he just says that facing him will be a difficult challenge in more than one way. It was. He still won. 👆
I'm not saying DP is necessarily wrong in where he has ROTJ Luke ranked, only that his interpretation of this quote is inaccurate. 👆
That Luke didn't finish his training means nothing toward how formidable he is.
No, you have never, ever provided the quote to my knowledge during my stay here.
And obviously skepticism is understandable when the quote your talking about happens to be during the scene where Yoda scolds Luke for cutting his training short in ESB. Especially when there have been occassions where Lucas has implied the direct opposite, to boot.
Hell, he had a hand in the writing of the movie novelizatons that directly refute this idea, which by the way have been recently revealed to still be canon, along with the TCW novelization.
And yeah, I am laughing at Filoni. All the time, really.