Darth Traya and Meetra Surik vs Darth Bane and Darth Zannah

Originally posted by AncientPower
POD Bane's skill ain't comparable to Kas'im's at all, Kas'Im switched things up and immediately Bane was losing. Bane won that fight through a telekinetic wave that collapsed the entrance on-top of the Twi'lek.

Nope, even after switching his forms up, Bane still had the edge and pushed him back. It was only after Kas'im used Jar'Kai that he pushed Bane back.

ROT Bane's skill was completely outmatched by Raskta Lsu's despite three massive advantages.

No... initially, he was caught off guard, then he tked her ass and then elbowed her. also you forget that Bane was taking on 3 opponents, Raskta, farfalla and Jothun. all amped by battle meditation.

MandoWars! Surik's skill allowed her a lead from the front style of leadership in places as hellish as Dxun and win against some of the deadliest Mandalorians in history.

She forced her people to push forward which resulted in their deaths. the vision on Korriban is her "doing it right this time"

TSL Surik's skill allowed her to fight through several major forces of opponents from the front and win all of them. Not to mention completely devastate the deadliest Sith the Triumvirate had to offer, including two of their leaders, all amped exponentially whilst fighting at, at best 80% strength and win solidly.

One is a guy who can revive himself and survived the fall of two empires. What else is there? Nihilus is an immensely power thing, obviously. Doesn't change the fact that Meetra was a wound and he was weakened when he drained her and when Visas disrupted their connection. Kreia is a master of combat. Kas'im transcends it, perfecting each form and being regarded as the greatest living duelist. Raskta's skill is considered unparalleled a master of combat.

Neither Sion nor Traya compare to Raskta or Kas'im as duelists.

'Revan' Surik's skill allowed her to kill multiple Imperial Guard simultaneously whilst right infront of the Emperor, said Imperial Guard being the guys that make Dark Council members check under their beds at night. [/B]

That's impressive, Sure. Doesn't change the fact that Raskta, Kas'im and even Zananh. are superior opponents.

Happy New Years AP Have fun! 😊

I guess all of the pointless crap Fated type would matter if Traya couldn't simply ragdoll and or kill Bane with drain or telekinesis.

Bane has no dueling feats that remotely compare to Surik's handling of Imperial Guardsmen and complete slaughter of the Sith Triumvirate on Malachor V.

👆

Wait so, Seleniel and Ancient Power are going on about mastery of lightsaber forms, yet they brush of Bane before his prime driving back Kas'im, a duelist who mastered all seven forms of lightsaber combat then spent decades perfecting each and every move and sequence?

@Nephthys As far as Bane's willpower goes, your example of Bane shrugging off Kaan's influence is very impressive, and it's also worth noting that Bane's willpower increases very notably between POD/ROT and DOE. In ROT, the pain of his lightning and the orbalisks burrowing into him and exploding inside of him knocked him into unconsciousness. In DOE however, after suffering the far far more painful loss of his arm to a tendril, Bane still maintained the composure and willpower for the ritual of essence transfer.

As far as the fight on Tython goes, I knew nexuses were wanked, but calling a nexus a massive advantage while calling battle meditation a minor one? Really?!

As far as Raskta Lsu goes, the blows she got on his armor were a result of him not utilizing defensive techniques to protect his body because he didn't have to. Bane's entire fighting style in ROT is tooled around the fact that he doesn't have to defend his body. And as far as her driving him back goes, that is clearly a feint and a tactic of subterfuge on Bane's part meant to allow him to catch them off guard by charging Worror, as Raskta later on needs the assistance of Farfalla and Johun to drive Bane into a defensive stance. Now it seems silly to lowball Bane's fight against Raskta Lsu, because at one point in his duel with her, he managed to throw her on her ass with an unpredictable maneuver, and she has the Echani penchant for predicting her opponents moves as well as having battle meditation and being the greatest duelist in the Jedi order. Now when Bane revamps his fighting style after losing the orbalisks, he places a very special emphasis on unpredictability, and a guy who can catch a BM amped Echani best duelist in the Jedi order off guard with his unpredictability before retooling his style to be far far more unpredictable is not somebody to be taken lightly. And to address the lowballing of Bane in this fight, in DOE Bane is significantly faster than in ROT, and he actually incorporates defensive maneuvers to protect his body, unlike in ROT.

Wait so, Seleniel and Ancient Power are going on about mastery of lightsaber forms, yet they brush of Bane before his prime driving back Kas'im, a duelist who mastered all seven forms of lightsaber combat then spent decades perfecting each and every move and sequence?

None of that makes him a skilled duelist, he knew every single lightsaber form yet still got driven back and killed by a guy that was training for a year max. Why do you keep wanking this guy?

As far as the fight on Tython goes, I knew nexuses were wanked, but calling a nexus a massive advantage while calling battle meditation a minor one? Really?!

Its a minor advantage when Bane is amped by the Tython nexus, amped by the orbalisks, and nearly invulnerable to lightsaber strikes. Not to mention only Raskta was worth her salt as a duelist, and they're all utterly featless. Bane beating them with 3x more advantages is not a sign of his skill

Prove DOE Bane was faster than Orbalisk Bane, the guy could barely dodge rain drops. Armor Nexus Bane made his lightsaber appear everywhere, formed a whirlwind with his blade, and created 12 afterimages. DOE Bane has literally nothing comparing to that

Lol @Carthage calling characters with actual feats featless while ignoring the actually featless Jedi Masters that kreia killed.

keep trolling Carthage 🐰

Originally posted by AncientPower
The fact that we essentially have confirmed by ourselves that Surik followed the Guardian path due to numerous sourcebook statements referring to martial/saber skill based victories, then the lightsaber forms almost certainly would have been taught.

Plus she says Blue, the color of the jedi guardian and chose a blue blade.
But yeh, I'm off for new year too.

Later all.

I said she was featless as a duelist. Also Bane's force showings are nothing compared to Traya's, he has no defense against drain and no showings of barrier to suggest he can stop himself from being ragdolled.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Nope, even after switching his forms up, Bane still had the edge and pushed him back. It was only after Kas'im used Jar'Kai that he pushed Bane back.

Hence switching it up.

No... initially, he was caught off guard, then he tked her ass and then elbowed her. also you forget that Bane was taking on 3 opponents, Raskta, farfalla and Jothun. all amped by battle meditation.

His telekinetic attack and elbow were the only real offense he managed the entire time, Jothun is featless and it's made clear Lsu was saving him from Bane as much if not more than he was actually aiding her. Lsu basically told Farfalla he was a noob and just getting in the way, his only real aid to her was a barrier. Said Battle Meditation Amplification is completely overcome by Bane's nexus and rage amps combined with his plot armor that evidently saved his ass.

She forced her people to push forward which resulted in their deaths. the vision on Korriban is her "doing it right this time"

That was but one section of the event, the KotOR comics, Campaign Guide and Prima Guide make Dxun a far far larger engagement.

One is a guy who can revive himself and survived the fall of two empires. What else is there? Nihilus is an immensely power thing, obviously. Doesn't change the fact that Meetra was a wound and he was weakened when he drained her and when Visas disrupted their connection. Kreia is a master of combat. Kas'im transcends it, perfecting each form and being regarded as the greatest living duelist. Raskta's skill is considered unparalleled a master of combat.

Darth Sion was a Marauder of Kun's Empire and survived the war, he went on to kill Jedi for decades before serving under Revan. Traya's chastisement of him is completely overblown, He has immense experience in killing Jedi Knights and even Masters.

Neither Sion nor Traya compare to Raskta or Kas'im as duelists.

Sion shouldn't be underestimated but I agree, Traya may not have the technical exertise of either but she is regardless a master duelist and evidently skilled enough to employ telekinetic lightsaber combat, which is stated to require truly excellent saber knowledge.

However, what you have ignored is both the severe disparagement in terms of combat advantages and the fact that Surik successfully ran a guantlet of:

Elite Triumvirate Sith(100s) > Darth Sion x4 > Darth Traya

She came out on top despite being at perhaps 70-80% strength whilst her opponents had basically unlimited energy and power.

This is accredited directly to her lightsaber skill.

That's impressive, Sure. Doesn't change the fact that Raskta, Kas'im and even Zananh. are superior opponents.

Raskta and Kas'im possibly and perhaps even likely have greater technical skill and knowledge but that is not all a duelist requires. As Dooku has said before, a true master of a single form can best a master of all. Surik has one of the best lightsaber feats in the mythos.

Zannah? Her entire style is just to wait it out until she has essentially charged her sorcery powers, she is lacking severely in the offensive department. Here is the thing Surik ain't getting tired any time soon and she has faced extreme mental effects before and tanked it.

Zannah has only beaten Set Harth, the odds of her being better than Surik are pretty much zilch. And again she has no resistance to being ragdolled or drained by Traya

Anyway seriously I need to get offline now and talk to you all on the 2nd.

Happy new year

Originally posted by Nephthys
Visas has no lightsaber showings, how the fight went down is unknown

In addition, Surik actually outdueled Visas:

As Nihilus's Shadow Hand, Visas does her lord's bidding. This includes tracking down a disturbance in the Force that turns out to be the Jedi Exile. They cross lightsabers, and Visas is summarily beaten, subsequently vowing loyalty to her vanquisher.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Bane's destruction of the Temple of the Ancients, his disintegration lightning and TK, his sheer strength and speed and numerous other advantages prove that. You need to prove Meetra wouldn't recieve the Nyriss treatment from him or Zannah.

The only difference it'll make is that when Bane cut's Traya's head off Meetra will probably shit herself as well before Zannah makes it a combo. Or perhaps Meetra being forced into insanity will make Traya go crazy....er as well. Not sure which will happen first tbh.

Nonetheless, good fight. I believe that setting can also make difference in this clash, a nexus would really help Team 2.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
KoTOR-CG reveals Visas comfortably impaling an HK series droid.

In addition, Surik actually outdueled Visas:

As Nihilus's Shadow Hand, Visas does her lord's bidding. This includes tracking down a disturbance in the Force that turns out to be the Jedi Exile. They cross lightsabers, and Visas is summarily beaten, subsequently vowing loyalty to her vanquisher.

This confrontation isn't as easy as it seems. Traya poses major threat to any individual of Team 2, she can create problems for Team 2 with Force Drain, providing an opportunity to Surik to take advantage.

Nonetheless, good fight. I believe that setting can also make difference in this clash, a nexus would really help Team 2.

That's probably not canon. Plus T3 killed 2 of those droids at once, they are a shadow of the original.

I wasn't aware the Exile could even possess a lightsaber by that point.

Yes, drain swings it in her favor if she has it. Otherwise she is outmatched. In particular Bane will slaughter the one armed woman in lightsaber combat, battering her saber out of her hand or blitzing her.

He didn't blitz Zannah and Zannah has no particularly good speed feats, so you have no real evidence he can blitz her.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That's probably not canon. Plus T3 killed 2 of those droids at once, they are a shadow of the original.

T3-M4 is one of the toughest utility droids every built, heavily customized for combat roles.

Still, a well-armed HK series droid is a force to be reckoned with irrespective of the model.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I wasn't aware the Exile could even possess a lightsaber by that point.

You sure that Surik didn't had a lightsaber at this point?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes, drain swings it in her favor if she has it. Otherwise she is outmatched. In particular Bane will slaughter the one armed woman in lightsaber combat, battering her saber out of her hand or blitzing her.

Nova's opinion was straight toxic, holy shit, kek.