Originally posted by ares834
Nope. Remember the anti-monitor and monitor were in a "coma" for awhile after their first battle.He also bottles it when it begins to spread which is presumably referring to when the universe split into the multiverse.
Thats just waay too confusing, how could it contain an infinite multiverse when in COIE the infinite multiverse is attacked?
Originally posted by ares834
Nope. Remember the anti-monitor and monitor were in a "coma" for awhile after their first battle.He also bottles it when it begins to spread which is presumably referring to when the universe split into the multiverse.
Originally posted by ares834👆
Comics.
The Orrery of Worlds bottled/contained the pre-Crisis Multiverse.
Originally posted by VastoLord1234
Keyword is "boxes", we are talking about a structure here, not metaphysics :/ The guidebook has made it clear that the multiverse is a physical thing which can be contained; thus it becomes the same as fitting 100 boxes into a single small, or 1000 mansions inside one small mansion. It cannot work like that at all.Im not gonna continue this topic either, but might i add Didio did infacts address the hate on DCEntertainment, he even said that convergence is being done as a way to appeal to those who are hating, as a way to apologize, explain and give back to the fans who are angry; Didio himself is recognizing this; its why convergence is acting like an entire reboot, which it probably will be.
not metaphysics? neither are scales of infinity. they are mathematical certainties. and all universes are technically boundless, formless--ie., they are not boxes, so the analogy stands pretty firmly. but yeah, there is no reason whatsoever needed beyond it's comics. 😬
Originally posted by operator616
And regarding the metatextual part -- i can point out that All-Flash #14 (1940s) was a story where metatextuality took place first. Though not in the same sense which Gardner presented it in Flash #123. So i can see your point on that one. It's irrelevant to the point in question either way though.
not really irrelevant in the sense that BOTH the examples cited--yours and mine--deal with a flash being at the heart of things.... in that issue, flash also actively and purposely transported himself to earth 2. i can can't what you're saying about that wonder woman issue, but as i was trying to say, the idea wasn't formalized until flash 123. which is why that issue is so important in dc's history and, imo, supports the notion that flash does indeed seem to be at the heart of things. ie, i don't see him being so important as forced. and that was my only issue with your earlier post. 👆
Originally posted by Galan007
Definitely on purpose. He took the 'meat and potatoes' from every major event/continuity thus far and simplified it down as much as he could--ergo the relationship with Flash and whatnot. Paying homage to each and every piece of Multiverse-related-text ever published would be ridiculous--it could be an event in itself, ffs. Obviously he's not going to go that route.People just need to stop nitpicking, and take this story for what it's worth. I mean, we know it's all bound to change when Convergence hits the shelves anyway, so getting upset over the cosmology it has established so far is a complete waste of time.
Frankly, Morrison has done a stupendous job in detailing his conception of the Multiverse so far. I really wish it would stick.
Definitely. My only regret is Morrison not fitting the 5th dimension into the map. He did write the N52 AC arc where he introduced the 5th dimension, but for some reason never included it in the map. It would have been interesting to see where it stands compared to other realms/worlds/universes.
Originally posted by leonidas
not really irrelevant in the sense that BOTH the examples cited--yours and mine--deal with a flash being at the heart of things.... in that issue, flash also actively and purposely transported himself to earth 2. i can can't what you're saying about that wonder woman issue, but as i was trying to say, the idea wasn't formalized until flash 123. which is why that issue is so important in dc's history and, imo, supports the notion that flash does indeed seem to be at the heart of things. ie, i don't see him being so important as forced. and that was my only issue with your earlier post. 👆
When i said forced, i was generally speaking, not necessarily because of the Flash #123 issue. Flash may have been at the center of things in those 2 instances, but he's not always at the center of it, or even most of the times. That title goes to Superman and Batman. Superman more-so. That's the reason why Flash never gained any sort of cosmic significance which Superman, Batman and even Diana (who, historically speaking, hasn't been that significant in the history of DCU major events) did, at the time period of IC. Even if we take Barry's discovery of the multiverse as genuine (which imo isn't, but let's say it is), Morrison literally nitpicked the two events where Flash was really at the center of things, and said that he "always" is at the center/heart of it all - which he isn't. That much i have no doubt.
Originally posted by operator616Yeah, that baffled me as well. Especially when the 5th dimension was explicitly mentioned in the very first issue of Multiversity:
Definitely. My only regret is Morrison not fitting the 5th dimension into the map. He did write the N52 AC arc where he introduced the 5th dimension, but for some reason never included it in the map. It would have been interesting to see where it stands compared to other realms/worlds/universes.
And during the Pax Americana issue, Captain Adam mentioned 8 dimensions while he was reading Ultra Comics:
So yeah, it seems rather odd that Morrison wouldn't include higher dimensional planes in his map, when he has personally mentioned them in this very event... Almost too odd, imo.
Regardless, there's still time to include the 5th dimension somewhere in his cosmology. Heck, Zrfff could end up being one of the 7 Unknown Worlds for all we know. /shrug
Originally posted by operator616
When i said forced, i was generally speaking, not necessarily because of the Flash #123 issue. Flash may have been at the center of things in those 2 instances, but he's not always at the center of it, or even most of the times. That title goes to Superman and Batman. Superman more-so. That's the reason why Flash never gained any sort of cosmic significance which Superman, Batman and even Diana (who, historically speaking, hasn't been that significant in the history of DCU major events) did, at the time period of IC. Even if we take Barry's discovery of the multiverse as genuine (which imo isn't, but let's say it is), Morrison literally nitpicked the two events where Flash was really at the center of things, and said that he "always" is at the center/heart of it all - which he isn't. That much i have no doubt.
this isn't really the place to get into all of this, (we can continue to rehash dc history in a different thread all day if you want) so i'll just say that while yes, i agree superman has definitely been given greater cosmic significance (more than any character in any company has been given) morrison chose flash because it was flash who started the train moving. others may have done more later, but flash was key. barry's role in coie, obviously flashpoint, not to mention his role in bringing a series of parallel worlds to the fore and the metatextual groundwork fox laid which morrison has paralleled, even if strictly speaking it wasn't the first time it was done. we're nitpicking though. we both like what morrison has done, i think we both see the historical significance of why he chose flash--i just find the choice more....appropriate than you?
regardless, the series and ideas presented thus far have been awesome.
as for the missing dimensions--it's pretty tough to include EVERYTHING, especially in a flat representation. i wonder when the concept for the map was developed? maybe before he wrote the text for the series. possible that the map was just finished first and so a couple things were left out. could be the unknown worlds as well i guess. maybe the dimensions just kind of overlay some of the other places?
clearly there is too much--the map can NOT be perfect. still, cool as hell.
Re: Morrison's Multiverse!
Originally posted by Galan007
I'm creating this thread with the intent that it will act as both a compendium and reference-source for those interested in Morrison's take on DC cosmology. So without further adieu...[b]The 52
Earth 0: http://i.imgur.com/tDB1tDb.jpg
Earth 1: http://i.imgur.com/13KnVbF.jpg
Earth 2-3: http://i.imgur.com/hBmS3M1.jpg
Earth 4: http://i.imgur.com/EbEULjm.jpg
Earth 5: http://i.imgur.com/nX64dgk.jpg
Earth 6-7: http://i.imgur.com/ohVMRYc.jpg
Earth 8-9: http://i.imgur.com/vXfYg5Q.jpg
Earth 10: http://i.imgur.com/Gt8Ckmt.jpg
Earth 11-12: http://i.imgur.com/EAFvGV0.jpg
Earth 13: http://i.imgur.com/OKHMtUb.jpg
Earth 14-15: http://i.imgur.com/3Weoigg.jpg
Earth 16: http://i.imgur.com/dwFioZq.jpg
Earth 17: http://i.imgur.com/JgBoyaX.jpg
Earth 18-19: http://i.imgur.com/xwxCKAH.jpg
Earth 20: http://i.imgur.com/k1lH5ZB.jpg
Earth 21: http://i.imgur.com/hWS4NAK.jpg
Earth 22: http://i.imgur.com/xzgLuEY.jpg
Earth 23: http://i.imgur.com/GYKTf4L.jpg
Earth 24-26: http://i.imgur.com/ANVsKcM.jpg
Earth 27-29: http://i.imgur.com/hLXMe18.jpg
Earth 30: http://i.imgur.com/TJQq9iZ.jpg
Earth 31-32: http://i.imgur.com/tmqGUZc.jpg
Earth 33 (Ultra Comics/Earth Prime): http://i.imgur.com/wtibjoI.jpg
Earth 34-35: http://i.imgur.com/G2seSf0.jpg
Earth 36-37: http://i.imgur.com/S8mFxkG.jpg
Earth 38-39: http://i.imgur.com/L3ZtwhU.jpg
Earth 40-41: http://i.imgur.com/Qvjlk7Y.jpg
Earth 42: http://i.imgur.com/M5l07he.jpg
Earth 43: http://i.imgur.com/hpbZdp2.jpg
Earth 44-45: http://i.imgur.com/I09qKIU.jpg
Earth 46-47: http://i.imgur.com/jBaSmh6.jpg
Earth 48: http://i.imgur.com/Gr4MUQH.jpg
Earth 49-50: http://i.imgur.com/meR7ksA.jpg
Earth 51: http://i.imgur.com/wCXLhXM.jpgMap of the Multiverse:
http://i.imgur.com/Yp1QeUQ.jpg [/B]
Earth 43 is the worst Earth ever.
Here's some scans for the Monitor Watchstation aka The House of Heroes. Harbringer awakens from her sleep and explains to Superman and the others the dangers the Multiverse is facing.
http://i.imgur.com/vs7fhGY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2qDtEm2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lELdGPj.jpg
If we see on the maps, the House of Heroes is right in the middle rotating through the Fifth Dimension within the Orrery of Worlds. I have 2 maps, 1 for the whole DCU and another for just the Orrery of Worlds.
http://i.imgur.com/0Dkczq9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5SJI2U7.jpg
We also see something with a '?" world or whatever it is, pretty close near Chaos. Hope we get to see what that is! 😮💨
Originally posted by operator616
Post-FP, Wildsotorm was incorporated into Earth-0 (mainstream Earth).
Right, I know, but I thought they were bringing back pre-FP universes in that one event soon (Convergence?). Only made sense that the old universes would still be around.
Or something. Maybe I just got my wires crossed.
Originally posted by Digi
Right, I know, but I thought they were bringing back pre-FP universes in that one event soon (Convergence?). Only made sense that the old universes would still be around.Or something. Maybe I just got my wires crossed.
Even if pre-FP WS is coming back in Convergence, you wouldn't find it in the multiversity guidebook (the scans which Galan posted) because the guidebook is restricted to featuring only the universes of the N52 continuity. You're basically looking in the wrong place.
