Originally posted by NephthysTFU II Starkiller has better power feats than Galen, and isn't the same being, and I must reiterate that that was pre-prime Galen under terrible circumstances, which you seem to think is negligible - it isn't. Not to mention Ti's power feats don't necessarily apply to other characters anyway, so there's another fallacious argument.
Pretty much literally the same person bro. And none of that adds up to Bane + Koon on top of Ti/Ventress. Galen didn't improve that much nor was he that weakened. In a duel Starkiller isn't standing up to Koon and Ventress together.
More to the point, however. Starkiller's frigate moving/disintegrating and simultaneous outer-layer-of-star-heat-barrier feat is enough to ragdoll everyone on the other team at the same time. Their collective power showings are absolutely minute compared to that feat. In a duel Starkiller would be destroyed but he doesn't need to duel anyone.
Originally posted by ILS
TFU II Starkiller has better power feats than Galen, and isn't the same being, and I must reiterate that that was pre-prime Galen under terrible circumstances, which you seem to think is negligible - it isn't. Not to mention Ti's power feats don't necessarily apply to other characters anyway, so there's another fallacious argument.More to the point, however. Starkiller's frigate moving/disintegrating and simultaneous outer-layer-of-star-heat-barrier feat is enough to ragdoll everyone on the other team at the same time. Their collective power showings are absolutely minute compared to that feat. In a duel Starkiller would be destroyed but he doesn't need to duel anyone.
He has the same power available to him and no reason why he'd be stronger than the original. In fact given that he has less memories and training he should really be weaker tbh. And I didn't state negligible, I said incomparable to Bane + Koon's power and defenses. There's no way he improved to the point where he could not only ragdoll a comparable Force user to Ti in Ventress but also the Sith'ari and Plo Koon as well. That don't make no sense. And I don't see why we can't compare Ti and Ventress. The latter has superior combat feats with regards to power, after all.
That feat is miles beyond anything in the games as well. None of the characters Starkiller has issues with display comparable levels of power. In or outside of that game. It's completely exaggerated wank that irrevocably clashes with other materials. More to the point SK never displays that kind of power in his actual fights. Or anything remotely close to it. Why did he not explode the Gorog with a casual wave unless he cannot replicate that power in a fight? Or unless it's poorly thought-out trash that shouldn't remotely be taken seriously. And shortly after that feat Vader, who did very well against SK, lost to a Maul clone. Maul isn't even really much better than Ventress alone.
Originally posted by Nephthys
That feat is miles beyond anything in the games as well. None of the characters Starkiller has issues with display comparable levels of power. In or outside of that game. It's completely exaggerated wank that irrevocably clashes with other materials. More to the point SK never displays that kind of power in his actual fights. Or anything remotely close to it. Why did he not explode the Gorog with a casual wave unless he cannot replicate that power in a fight? Or unless it's poorly thought-out trash that shouldn't remotely be taken seriously. And shortly after that feat Vader, who did very well against SK, lost to a Maul clone. Maul isn't even really much better than Ventress alone.
^This
Originally posted by NephthysThat feat is miles beyond anything in the games as well. None of the characters Starkiller has issues with display comparable levels of power. In or outside of that game. It's completely exaggerated wank that irrevocably clashes with other materials. More to the point SK never displays that kind of power in his actual fights. Or anything remotely close to it. Why did he not explode the Gorog with a casual wave unless he cannot replicate that power in a fight? Or unless it's poorly thought-out trash that shouldn't remotely be taken seriously. And shortly after that feat Vader, who did very well against SK, lost to a Maul clone. Maul isn't even really much better than Ventress alone.
You could've just shortened your TLDR post to say you think the feat is overrated, and that you have no valid reason or feats of barrier to suggest Starkiller can't ragdoll any of the three or two at once 👆
Originally posted by NephthysSo.. you both want me to debate with you under the assumption this is Galen Marek from TFU I instead of Starkiller from TFU II (this isn't the case) and also under the assumption that his frigate feat is non-canon because you don't like it (even though the novels are the highest form of TFU canon)?
He has the same power available to him and no reason why he'd be stronger than the original. In fact given that he has less memories and training he should really be weaker tbh. And I didn't state negligible, I said incomparable to Bane + Koon's power and defenses. There's no way he improved to the point where he could not only ragdoll a comparable Force user to Ti in Ventress but also the Sith'ari and Plo Koon as well. That don't make no sense. And I don't see why we can't compare Ti and Ventress. The latter has superior combat feats with regards to power, after all.That feat is miles beyond anything in the games as well. None of the characters Starkiller has issues with display comparable levels of power. In or outside of that game. It's completely exaggerated wank that irrevocably clashes with other materials. More to the point SK never displays that kind of power in his actual fights. Or anything remotely close to it. Why did he not explode the Gorog with a casual wave unless he cannot replicate that power in a fight? Or unless it's poorly thought-out trash that shouldn't remotely be taken seriously. And shortly after that feat Vader, who did very well against SK, lost to a Maul clone. Maul isn't even really much better than Ventress alone.
Nah.
Originally posted by carthage
You could've just shortened your TLDR post to say you think the feat is overrated, and that you have no valid reason or feats of barrier to suggest Starkiller can't ragdoll any of the three or two at once 👆
His answer, if you pay attention, is that "It's completely exaggerated wank that irrevocably clashes with other materials."
Which is to suggest that "Starkiller can't ragdoll any of the three or two at once"
TFU is an exaggerated source, very similar to the CW mini that portrayed everyone as Superman. The entire concept behind the game was to unleash the force by portraying it in a highly exaggerated and inflated manner that was on another level to the standard portrayal of the Force. So I don't see those feats as representative of SK necessarily being far above others. If the likes of Bane or Dooku or Maul had been in that game they'd be doing similar things. Anyone appearing in those materials is portrayed in that stylised, exaggerated way.
Originally posted by Nephthys
TFU is an exaggerated source, very similar to the CW mini that portrayed everyone as Superman. The entire concept behind the game was to unleash the force by portraying it in a highly exaggerated and inflated manner that was on another level to the standard portrayal of the Force. So I don't see those feats as representative of SK necessarily being far above others. If the likes of Bane or Dooku or Maul had been in that game they'd be doing similar things. Anyone appearing in those materials is portrayed in that stylised, exaggerated way.
No kidding, its not the only one, but one of the most obvious.
Originally posted by ILS
Galen originating within that material means there is no way to consider him outside of it. So you can't really discredit his feats the same way you can with the CW cartoon. Jus' saying. Having said that it is a highly exaggerated source.
We can consider him based on how he measures up to other characters, like Vader. I rate SK based on how I rate Vader, based upon Vader's numerous showings, as slightly above him in both the Force and sabers. As well as what it suggests that he can momentarily tank Sidious' lightning, based on how I rate that lightning. So I put him about on par with Revan and Malgus.
Originally posted by NephthysBut as you've said, Vader is exaggerated to an extent in that source material as well. Power-scaling Galen off of an exaggerated character isn't a good way to find common ground with a consistent one.
We can consider him based on how he measures up to other characters, like Vader. I rate SK based on how I rate Vader, based upon Vader's numerous showings, as slightly above him in both the Force and sabers. As well as what it suggests that he can momentarily tank Sidious' lightning, based on how I rate that lightning. So I put him about on par with Revan and Malgus.
And your views however valid can be completely dismissed. TFU is a part of Legends canon, whether we like it or not. What Galen has accomplished throughout the series canonically happened, so trying to take those showings and power-scale them down is a murky task to say the least.
Vader has showings outside of TFU tho.
Any opinion can be dismissed. I'm just making a case for mine. TFU might well be canon, but hasn't it been said that some elements of canon are "foggier" and further away from the "real" star wars than others? As far as I know however, TFU and the CW mini are the only two examples where it's explicit that the material is an unrealistic take on the setting. They can be canon and still be an exaggerated version of events if we take this foggy window statement into account.