I just watched episode 9. It just replaced episode 4 as the greatest episode in the entire series.
Spoiler:
Castle vs the Kingpin. Man, I missed Fisk. The dude somehow stole every scene he was in with the Punisher, who's been stealing every scene he's been in all season. This was a match I could have only dreamed of seeing someday. Fisk risking through the prison hierarchy using the Punisher, and then betraying him was a great little mini arc, and more interesting to watch than any of the DD vs the Hand stuff. I also liked Kingpin adapting the plan to let him go and start wiping out the rest of the criminal underworld in preparation for his release. He's playing a long game of chess, and is beautiful. I really hope to have him back season 3, along with Bullseye. He's established himself as the best character in the series, and the best MCU villain to date IMO.The stuff with DD and the hand, as I've said, has been meh. Its cool to have Nobu back, but I hated how easily he beat Murdocks ass. Murdock put up a better fight season one, when he was less experienced and not covered from head to toe in armor made specifically to block things like Nobus weapons (remember, Matt used these same weapons to try to cut Fisk in season 1, but he couldn't cut through, which is why he adapted his armor from Fisks). Their first fight was better. I'm hoping the hand storyline improves.
Also, anyone saying Castle cant carry his own series has apparently never picked up a Punisher comic. I would love to see him face off against Jigsaw, Hitman, The Barracuda, the Russian or Fisk in his own series. They've already set up Finn Cooley to return as his comic persona with his newly reconstructed face (
Spoiler:).
the IRA dude torturing Castle who got his face blown in with a shotgun
The Punisher could easily carry his own series, and has been for quite some time. Theres a reason the dude evolved from the one off Spiderman villain he started off as.
Originally posted by Arachnid1
Also, anyone saying Castle cant carry his own series has apparently never picked up a Punisher comic. I would love to see him face off against Jigsaw, Hitman, The Barracuda, the Russian or Fisk in his own series. They've already set up Finn Cooley to return as his comic persona with his newly reconstructed face (Spoiler:).
the IRA dude torturing Castle who got his face blown in with a shotgunThe Punisher could easily carry his own series, and has been for quite some time. Theres a reason the dude evolved from the one off Spiderman villain he started off as.
Not a fan, for the same reasons I mentioned. The only good Punisher stories are the ones that work on comparison, which means they aren't actually solo Punisher stories.
I know Punisher has been popular, but I absolutely do not think that is the same thing.
Originally posted by Inhuman
Yeah. I thought it was good.
Don't know if he can carry a whole series though. Guess we'll find out.
Well, I think they did a decent job of giving an intro to his character in JJ. We learn a few things about him,
Spoiler:So they've already kind of set up some potential plot arcs for his series. I'm hoping it will be good, because I've enjoyed both seasons of DD, as well as JJ, but will have to wait and see.
such as his connection to those superhuman experiments Kilgrave was also subjected to. And the fact that he took pains to have the bar under someone else's name suggests that he is hiding from someone/something.
It's been mentioned by the writers (but only as an idea, not any sort of confirmed project) and there's a lot of clamour for it.
Metacritic here is interesting- DD season 2 has a lower critic score but a higher user one compared to S1. I think it's just that a lot of people really like The Punisher, but I'm with the critics; it didn't hold together as well as a story (but it was still good).
I'll give Luke Cage's series a go, but I found him terribly boring in JJ- not like I have said about the Punisher, who is a one-note kind of dramatically boring rather than being actively boring in person. Luke I actually just found dull to watch, especially against the wonderfully expressive JJ.
Well I still think the Punisher solo series could work though it might be better as a mini-series given the character's personality and pool of villains: kind of like how Agent Carter is set up.
Funny how DD Season 2 has appeared to generate more JJ buzz than hype for Season 3. Though as long as the hype train isn't as bad as it was during the latter show's debut, then I won't complain.
Originally posted by UshgarakDifferent strokes, I suppose.
Not a fan, for the same reasons I mentioned. The only good Punisher stories are the ones that work on comparison, which means they aren't actually solo Punisher stories.I know Punisher has been popular, but I absolutely do not think that is the same thing.
Frank's 2001 solo series, Punisher MAX, War Journal, and Frank's 2011 solo series, to name a few, were excellent Punisher-themed series'--and I believe any of them would translate to Netflix/TV very well if done right.
Both Punisher himself, as well as his rogues, have enough depth(and his stories obviously have enough action) to make for a very entertaining TV adaption, imo. But again: it has to be done right. Producers need to follow the blueprints for Punisher that Ennis left for them--that man knows how to write a damn good Punisher title. 😛
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Well I still think the Punisher solo series could work though it might be better as a mini-series given the character's personality and pool of villains: kind of like how Agent Carter is set up.
The Netflix Marvel shows already are basically mini-series with 13 episodes per season.
Agent Carter's latest season had 10 episodes.
Incidentally, does anyone think that in the showrunner shift they got a bit confused about the Black Sky thing?
I mean, the big thing with this series is that
Spoiler:
Elektra is THE Black Sky they've been waiting for since the year dot.
Did they forget that they killed A Black Sky in S1? That pokes a giant hole in the S2 logic. Nobu even specified that they were rare but not unique. It's an outright contradiction.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well, I'm with the Joss Whedon school on that one- that those are all badly overrated. He just kills. I think people are making up depth where there is none simply because they like what The Punisher does.It would be far inferior tv to Daredevil.
I'm more with the John Wick school of thought. I thought Punisher and Kingpin were a lot more exciting to watch than DD and Elektra this season, so I could quite happily watch The Punisher slaughter his way through the food chain to wipe out a slave ring, for instance. It was my favourite arc in the Punisher Max series, watching the violence escalate as he followed the trail and the organization he stalked realised their usual tactics weren't going to work on him.
Originally posted by Dreampanther
I thought Punisher and Kingpin were a lot more exciting to watch than DD and Elektra this season,
Well as mentioned, I agree with that, because a. the Punisher stuff was good, b. the Elektra stuff was less good and c. Daredevil was oddly subdued in getting his message across (they need to get back to the Catholic thing).
But the 'a' bit holds true only in as far as he was a supporting character to Daredevil and acted as a comment on that stance.
Devoid of that, with Castle as centre stage, his ultra-violence, no compromises, no questions, no changes, no nuance approach would get very boring very quickly. A whole series of that would be numbing.
He's a very boring guy in person- you can't get away from that. It's not as if he's living a normal life and secretly being the Punisher. He's just The Punisher. Think of all the neat social interactions in Daredevil that are central to the show. Screw all of that! We just get more of Castle brooding and talking about the scum he'll put down.
And villains need a certain presence on tv as well. Fisk is great because he has an interesting personality. But bad guys for the Punisher have to be absolutely hideous, irredeemable monsters, and how long can that stay interesting to see on screen?
Again, I think we are conflating what can work for a film and what can work for a tv series.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Incidentally, does anyone think that in the showrunner shift they got a bit confused about the Black Sky thing?I mean, the big thing with this series is that
Spoiler:
Elektra is THE Black Sky they've been waiting for since the year dot.Did they forget that they killed A Black Sky in S1? That pokes a giant hole in the S2 logic. Nobu even specified that they were rare but not unique. It's an outright contradiction.
Spoiler:
It could be that the kid in the first season was either to be bled out and be one of the incubators like the other kids in season 2 and Stick caught wind of it and killed it so they couldn't go forward with the ritual. Or it could be that a Black Sky isn't a singular, but a plurality, and it's the people born with murderous intent whom the Hand use as weapons, and Elektra just happens to be one of them. As was shown in season 2, Stick knew what Elektra was as a child and tried to turn her to the light. The kid in season one likely had the same potential as Elektra (as in born with bloodlust) and Stick took him out rather than attempting to kidnap him and control like he did with Elektra which proved to be unsuccessful and he learned from his mistake.
Also, on the merits of a Punisher series, I'm all for it. To say an action crime noir wouldn't work seems like a lack of vision to me. There will be supporting characters and other crime families and villains introduced, and it can act as a launching pad for characters like Night Thrasher and Tombstone.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Again, I think we are conflating what can work for a film and what can work for a tv series.
I'll concede that - 13 episodes or more than 10 hours might be a bit much. But a mini-series of 6 episodes would be fantastic - you'd have enough time to flesh out the villains, then build up the action and let it escalate into an all-out bloodbath that would satisfy the action junkies like me but also keep the interest and attention of people who watch it more for the drama.
