Originally posted by Arachnid1
I watched episode 7I don't know why, but Elektra is really off to me. She doesn't have the same terrifying factor she has in the comics. Elektra is usually serious, deadly, and intimidating. This chick comes off more as a retarded rich college daddy's girl trying to have fun. I like her as a stand alone character, but she hasn't captured Elektra yet at all. I have 6 episodes left through. Maybe that will change.
Spoiler:
It does. The rich girl thing is an act.
I actually thought spoilt rich kid fun-loving Elektra was her at her best- she actually shook the dynamic up a bit (almost no-one enjoys what they are doing in Daredevil). As soon as she descended into
Spoiler:and then
tearful, angsting, mooning over Daredevil Elektra
Spoiler:she was just tedious. The personality switches seemed a bit arbitrary too.
dark murderous brooding revengey Elektra
Frank Castle was consistent and made sense throughout- but I still think that wouldn't carry well in his own series. The thing is, Frank doesn't really change or question (for more than a nanosecond, anyway). He;s the absolute embodiment of what he is, but I don't think that's actually dramatically interesting in this own right- only when it is used as a comparison measure. There's none of the nuance that makes Daredevil or, more to the point, Fisk so powerful in their own right. I'd want to watch a series about Fisk over one about Castle.
Talking of which- Daredevil put up a piss-poor defence of his moral stance in this series. Actually, I think the new showrunners seem less interested in his Catholic guilt thing, and that's a shame as I think it was a vital ingredient of series 1 that made the show far better than I thought it would be. I think the writers were so taken with Punisher's scene-stealing qualities that they didn't really put a convincing case against him.
Well I think A Punisher series can and will work just fine.
If they can make a show about Jessica Jones then they can certainly make one about The Punisher.
They can do it one of 2 ways.
1. Focus on Frank
2. Focus on Franks enemies more than Frank. And have Frank in low doses.
Kind of like "The Dark Knight" was a Joker movie more than a Batman one.
Same deal for "The Dark Knight Rises" Very Bane heavy instead of Batman. Batman was like a side character in his own movie.
You could do the same thing in a Punisher series.
Jessica Jones is a fascinating character- there's far more dimension to her than Frank. That's not necessarily a slight against Frank as he is exactly what he is meant to be- but that is a thing with dramatic limits. Nonetheless, so much of that personality is about her relationship with Kilgrave, I'm uncertain about series 2, Still, we'll see.
Also, Batman is a film rather than a series- and a Punisher film, if done right, has possibilities (awkward to stop it just being Deathwish though)- but regardless, I'd point out that there's way more to Batman's personality than Frank's as well, despite the superficial similarity in motivation. The Joker, in particular, only works because of Batman's structural limits.
The problem with the Punisher is that he's extreme- he's blown past all the limits that you generally use to test characters dramatically. In his own series, you can't put him up against someone less extreme, unless you are setting him up to fail.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Jessica Jones is a fascinating character- there's far more dimension to her than Frank. Nonetheless, so much of that personality is about her relationship with Kilgrave, I'm uncertain about series 2, Still, we'll see.
Maybe Comics Frank is pretty one dimensional. Depends on story and writer, But Netflix Punisher seemed rather interesting. They actually gave him decent character development .
There is also the fact that Shane is a pretty good actor. So far he has done the character justice and made him interesting.
I for one think he stole the show in every scene he was in DD season 2.
In his few appearances so far he has more character development than most of his comic counterpart story arcs.
About Jessica Jones. Yeah Killgrave was great. But that just furthers my idea that a show focusing on crime families and certain Punisher villains could work just fine.
The acting is 100% on- no complaints there. I'm not actively saying the Punisher bits were bad- I just don't think it was as good as the Fisk stuff in series 1, but here it's definitely better than the Elektra plot.
I can;t honestly see him carrying his own series though. I'd give it a fair shot if they tried, but I think he works better as a comment on other characters.
Well, finished watching this, and I really enjoyed it overall, maybe even a bit more than the first season. I always liked Cox as DD, Bernthal was great as Castle, and the rest of the people were solid overall. I liked that Foggy came more into his own this season. I didn't care for Elektra though. She just irritated me. There were a few slow episodes, but most were good.
Spoiler:
Fisk's part of the plot was awesome. I forgot what an enormous bastard D'Onofrio is, and how terrifying he can be as Fisk. And loved how he took over the prison as it's new Kingpin. I also liked his line about planning to not fight a war, but win it, once he gets out.Also, a couple more amazing fight scenes during the show. The one where the camera just follows Matt going through those bikers was a notable one.
And on a random note, is no one going to mention what looked like a Stilt-man suit in Melvin's place? There also seemed to be blueprints for his Gladiator armour on the one table.
I actually wasn't vastly impressed with Kingpin in Season 1. He was okay, he had some creepy obsession over some chick. Other then that he just did typical mobster shit you see.
I liked him better in season 2 and I realized why: we didn't see as much of him.
So eh, you can make a good show out of a character if you write it correctly. That said instead of giving Punisher 13 episodes maybe start him off with 5-6.
Originally posted by tkitnahttp://i.imgur.com/QZmWhcZ.png
I missed that. Damn
It was a fun Easter Egg.
Finished it last night, all-in-all enjoyed it, started out liking it more than DD S1 initially, but by the end I'm not so sure anymore.
Elektra was a weak-point, imo, character wasn't very interesting in the long run, acting was questionable and her story arch was tiring at times.
Will watch DD S3 and looking forward to it, but looking forward to JJ season 2 more, considerably more
Just finished it. Overall, it was good but not as great as season 1.
Spoiler:
The lack of Fisk was one big reason. Easily my favorite part of the series was the "discussion" between Fisk and Murdock. So damn intense! The Punisher stuff was cool but it really took the back seat and became the B-plot for the latter 3/4 of the season which was very disappointing. Though I loved seeing him at the end helping DD, even if it was only to snipe some fodder.But, like others, I felt that the whole Black Sky plot-line was pretty weak and dragged out. Nobu is just such a terribly dry villain. Worse yet, the damn plot-line isn't finished yet. Hopefully, it's resolved quickly so we can get back to Kingpin.
I guess another problem I had was there were two story-lines going on. And they never really weaved together but mostly stayed separate. In fact, the entire Punisher plot seems almost pointless... Even though I did enjoy it.
Yeah, one criticism I have heard thrown around is that this season felt like a setup season for DD season 3, Defenders etc. and I can see how people feel that way. They really didn't tie up many loose ends.
Spoiler:
The Black Sky plot with Elektra was left unfinished, with her body being put in that tank. And despite all the time they spend on the Punisher story, we still don't know whether taking out Frank was intentionally part of the plot of the park shootout, because he refused to smuggle drugs with his old C.O., or if his family just happened to be there at the wrong time. And we get hints of Fisk's plans, but they don't go into much further detail there either. They basically left a bunch of open plot lines they have to finish up in the future.
Also, anyone check the funny little Luke Cage teaser, where people unload a bunch of clips at him to no effect, and he is just like, "I am getting sick of always having to buy new clothes."
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Also, anyone check the funny little Luke Cage teaser, where people unload a bunch of clips at him to no effect, and he is just like, "I am getting sick of always having to buy new clothes."
Yeah. I thought it was good.
Don't know if he can carry a whole series though. Guess we'll find out.
