Originally posted by Star428
LOL@ "without his spider-sense, spidey can be outreacted by humans". Sorry, but that makes no sense at all. He's incredibly fast even without his SS though obviously not on WW level even with it. If a normal human ever outreacts SM with or w/out his SS then it's obviously PIS.
Well, guess the Spot is just that good then 👆
Originally posted by Star428
LOL@ "without his spider-sense, spidey can be outreacted by humans". Sorry, but that makes no sense at all. He's incredibly fast even without his SS though obviously not on WW level even with it. If a normal human ever outreacts SM with or w/out his SS then it's obviously PIS.
👆
Obviously a low showing. Spiderman has entire series without his Spider sense and he is still extremely fast. That was either a low showing or Spiderman was caught off guard. Let's not pretend like this hasn't happened to Wonder Woman (Royal Gang). All in all, WW is faster 'without resorting to low showings'
Originally posted by carver9
👆Obviously a low showing. Spiderman has entire series without his Spider sense and he is still extremely fast. That was either a low showing or Spiderman was caught off guard. Let's not pretend like this hasn't happened to Wonder Woman (Royal Gang). All in all, WW is faster 'without resorting to low showings'
It HAS to be a low showing, if you want to disregard it. You cannot say he was 'caught off-guard'....because that implies he relies far too much on his SS.
Seems to just be the Spot, I guess.
In any case, with regards to the OP, thhe SS HAS been cancelled (Mysterio, the Goblins, Skrulls, Spot, Ezekiel etc)
The SS can be fooled (Iron Man)
It has blind spots (Venom/Carnage etc)
Like the Predator, it won't work with non threats (Aunt May/The Jackal etc)
Not to mention, when he lost it, he specifically had to train up in order to be effective again (Spider-Fu). Proof that without the SS, he was not all that.
So when balanced against all this, WW's is better.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It HAS to be a low showing, if you want to disregard it. You cannot say he was 'caught off-guard'....because that implies he relies far too much on his SS.Seems to just be the Spot, I guess.
In any case, with regards to the OP, thhe SS HAS been cancelled (Mysterio, the Goblins, Skrulls, Spot, Ezekiel etc)
The SS can be fooled (Iron Man)
It has blind spots (Venom/Carnage etc)
Like the Predator, it won't work with non threats (Aunt May/The Jackal etc)
Not to mention, when he lost it, he specifically had to train up in order to be effective again (Spider-Fu). Proof that without the SS, he was not all that.
So when balanced against all this, WW's is better.
You're still wrong though. Example, let's say a god endowed you with Spiderman Spider sense and his agility. Even with these abilities, if a gang of men surround you with machine guns, you are as good as dead since you will not be fast enough to react to said attacks. Spiderman speed has a large play in what he does. Example, Herc was given Spiderman abilities during the time he was in human form.
At face to face range, a guy with Spiderman powers picks up a gun and shoot at Herc. Herc has enough time to turn around, look at the bullets and think, and then swipe them out of the air with ease.
This doesn't include the fact that he saw the world in slow mo. This happened with Spiderman speed. Now if you think his Spider Sense have anything to do with that showing then something is seriously wrong with you. Anyways, WW wins.
How is any of my post wrong?
I have the showings of the Spot. Did it happen, yes or no? If no, then I am wrong. If it DID happen, why, then I am correct in the stance that I took. Not once, but consistently with the Spot, who (AFAIK) has no MA training, and no enhanced reflexes.
Moot point, anyway, as we both agree that WW has better reflexes. BUT I do take umbrage at your assertion that I am wrong - when all I said was that without the SS to help him, a loser like the Spot could tag him effortlessly. And then gave all the times the SS was either cancelled out, or fooled. All of which happened.
Lol btw, you're the worst at debating. Of all the scans you could have chosen, you choose the ones where Herc specifically says it was down to skill 😛. But again, moot point, so I won't argue it further. Just thought it amusing.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
How is any of my post wrong?I have the showings of the Spot. Did it happen, yes or no? If no, then I am wrong. If it DID happen, why, then I am correct in the stance that I took. Not once, but consistently with the Spot, who (AFAIK) has no MA training, and no enhanced reflexes.
Moot point, anyway, as we both agree that WW has better reflexes. BUT I do take umbrage at your assertion that I am wrong - when all I said was that without the SS to help him, a loser like the Spot could tag him effortlessly. And then gave all the times the SS was either cancelled out, or fooled. All of which happened.
Lol btw, you're the worst at debating. Of all the scans you could have chosen, you choose the ones where Herc specifically says it was down to skill 😛. But again, moot point, so I won't argue it further. Just thought it amusing.
Let me find some scans of a human hitting Wonder Woman. 👆
Also, lol, skill makes someone see the world in slowmo. 😆
Originally posted by carver9
Let me find some scans of a human hitting Wonder Woman. 👆Also, lol, skill makes someone see the world in slowmo. 😆
Like I said, I won't argue it further - I just found it amusing that of all the Spideysense scans you could have used, you used that one. That's all.
As for the WW/human one, make sure it is one that fits your point. I specifically chose the Spot's showings, as Spiderman himself specifically mentions that he cannot react in time due to the Spot negating his Spidey Sense.
So...not sure what your scans would show? Unless you have scans of a human negating WW's skills? Or something. Otherwise, you'd just be vomiting scans for no reason.
Love you Diana but I also want to point out some things here. I think everyone here knows that Deathstroke isn't as fast as Spiderman. Here is Diana vs Deathstroke and it's stated that he is faster than her.
They have a long drawn out fight after this. Not the only time either. Deathstroke was fast enough to take something from WW before she even realized it.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/78294/1634079-dcu_online__008.jpg
Nitpicking for the win. All of these character have showings like this...even the fastest of them. It's like me using Gambit tagging Gladiator or Shadow Dragon being faster than Superman or Grundy out reacting Flash. Looking at consistent showings, Spiderman is extremely fast, even without his Spider sense.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Like I said, I won't argue it further - I just found it amusing that of all the Spideysense scans you could have used, you used that one. That's all.As for the WW/human one, make sure it is one that fits your point. I specifically chose the Spot's showings, as Spiderman himself specifically mentions that he cannot react in time due to the Spot negating his Spidey Sense.
So...not sure what your scans would show? Unless you have scans of a human negating WW's skills? Or something. Otherwise, you'd just be vomiting scans for no reason.
Lol...you used scans of a guy that open portals through dimensions as evidence of Spiderman speed. It's not like he was standing right in front of Spiderman doing this. Do YOU think you can tag Spiderman if you were standing in front of him? Spot has human reactions, you have human reactions as well. Shouldn't be any difference. Spot doesn't have any MM skills. Spot doesn't have enhanced reflexes. You should be able to repeat what spot did in a face to face encounter, correct?
None of those other characters are in this thread, but good show on only being able to find Deathstroke, lol. Still faster and more than some loser called the Spot👆 Not to mention, where does it say DS is faster than WW? Is this like your 'Gladiator is fighting Hyperion at lightspeed, as shown in the scan'?
Concession accepted.
Sometimes, you own yourself. I'm not arguing that WW is slower than Spiderman, and crucially, neither are you. I am just pointing out some funny proofs you use, and then you make things worse for yourself by misrepresenting scans, and using DCUO comics (i.e. non-canon) to further your points.
You DO know that the scan of him stealing her lasso is non-canon, right? Lol.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
None of those other characters are in this thread, but good show on only being able to find Deathstroke, lol. Still faster and more than some loser called the Spot👆 Not to mention, where does it say DS is faster than WW? Is this like your 'Gladiator is fighting Hyperion at lightspeed, as shown in the scan'?Concession accepted.
Sometimes, you own yourself. I'm not arguing that WW is slower than Spiderman, and crucially, neither are you. I am just pointing out some funny proofs you use, and then you make things worse for yourself by misrepresenting scans, and using DCUO comics (i.e. non-canon) to further your points.
You DO know that the scan of him stealing her lasso is non-canon, right? Lol.
"Deathstroke may be faster than she is".
Should I post her fights with Batman as well? Would that help. Also, answer my question above and stop trying to avoid it. Since Spot has human reactions and speed and he was able to tag Spiderman, you should be able to do the same thing if you are standing f2f against Spiderman, correct?
Originally posted by carver9
"Deathstroke may be faster than she is".Should I post her fights with Batman as well? Would that help. Also, answer my question above and stop trying to avoid it. Since Spot has human reactions and speed and he was able to tag Spiderman, you should be able to do the same thing if you are standing f2f against Spiderman, correct?
Hehe, was just getting my scans.
'MAY be'. So, IOW, no words saying that he IS faster than her. Good proof 👆
Lol, not avoiding it, you can see that I posted my reply to you just as you did. Not avoiding anything, although, YOU can be seen to be avoiding my accusation that you are using a NON-CANON source, i.e. DCUO, in order to further your 'point'.
Anyway, I reckon I can tag Spidey. Now what?
As to your point that it 'wasn't in front of him':
Spelled out, clearly, for you: 'he pulls back inside his holes before I even have a chance to grab'
A bit too old for you?
How about:
Spot POWERS play a huge role in those showings. HUGE ROLE. Stop acting like it isn't. Now again, can you tag Spiderman if you are face to face, yes or no? Spot tagged him, so you should be able too, correct? The Deathstroke fight in the snow is canon and the second scan imo is usable as well since it relies highly on my interpretation of the first scene. If you want, I can post some Batman fights if that makes you feel better.
Originally posted by carver9
Spot POWERS play a huge role in those showings. HUGE ROLE. Stop acting like it isn't. Now again, can you tag Spiderman if you are face to face, yes or no? Spot tagged him, so you should be able too, correct? The Deathstroke fight in the snow is canon and the second scan imo is usable as well since it relies highly on my interpretation of the first scene. If you want, I can post some Batman fights if that makes you feel better.
I already said yes I could - are you going to prove me wrong? Read my post carefully - you seem to make a habit of speed reading things and not understanding.
DS fight in the snow said he 'may' be faster than her. Great proof. Which isn't the same as your assertion that he IS faster.
You can use whatever you want - I'm not even sure you know what you are doing, apart from trying to get one over me. You always do this, and it always ends badly for you.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85I disagree, comics state that his reflexes is up to 40x faster than a human's. That would mean he can see bullets in slow motion (around 20mph).
WW's is better.Depending on the writer, Spidey's SS doesn't ALWAYS help him. In darkness, where he can't see, there have been several depictions where it is shown the SS won't tell him what is the danger, or where it is coming from.
Obviously, you have other showings where it is essentially detailed precog.
Without the SS, he can be outreacted by humans. The Spot manages to outreact him, and he is hardly a trained fighter with any enhanced stats.
Once the SS is turned off, Spidey isn't anything to write home about.
He has reacted and outmaneuvered Venom, who isn't a slouch in speed, without any benefit of SS.
With that said, WW reflexes are beyond 40x a human. But Spidey reacts first.
