Spiderman vs Ares (Marvel)

Originally posted by Stoic
Ares certainly has the strength to lay Peter out, but he has to actually hit him. Spiderman on the other hand has a history of beating the crap out of stronger characters than he is, he even made the entire Xmen look like fools during the Secret Wars.

A few generic strong man tactics that might work:

Thunderclap.

Or, taking the ground out from under him, like Luke Cage got Danny under Claremont.

Edit: Oops, see someone mentioned TP.

Btw, that scan of Herc wailing on Ares? I believe Herc didn't even score the KO.. Not from that, at least.

Characters really should thunderclap atleast once on panel before we attribute it to every strong man, because at the least it would be considered out of character.

So, the environnent is featureless and flat, right? Normal, non indestructible floor?

General question, not just for this fight. Thing is, isn't it pis that every villain cl100 tries slugging it out with a street, instead of ripping up a building to mountain sized flyswatter? Lets see Spidey or Matt dodge a chunk of ground the size of the empire state building. 😛

Originally posted by Stoic
You would love to see how Spiderman riles his opponents up? Do you recall his witty banter? You've never seen Spiderman use his webs in an attempt to slow, or subdue his opponents? I did say that he could use the ground to hurt Ares even in a featureless environment right? I didn't pursue the environment because you showed me how nothing was stated in the OP.

I was talking about webbing someone up and spinning them around, smashing them into the environment. Often enough for it to be a likely tactic against Ares.

Originally posted by Stoic
It wouldn't take than many punches to put Ares down. It also didn't take Superman to place immortal Herc in a coma when the Masters of evil nearly beat the life out of him. Using his showing against Hercules doesn't not make him immune to Spiderman.

IIRC he was attacked by the Wrecking Crew, Titania, Absorbing Man, Goliath(the villain that would later become Atlas) and more, and I know he was drugged before.

I agree with Pr. Spidey's not strong enough, and not speedster enough to justify things like putting Masterson on the ropes.

If this was like a point based boxing match, Spidey wins. For the KO, it's not happening against a guy that aborbs full on cl100 hits.. He'll punch himself out just like he did against Black Tarantula.

Originally posted by Delta1938
I was talking about webbing someone up and spinning them around, smashing them into the environment. Often enough for it to be a likely tactic against Ares.

IIRC he was attacked by the Wrecking Crew, Titania, Absorbing Man, Goliath(the villain that would later become Atlas) and more, and I know he was drugged before.

I know what you were saying Delta no worries there. However Petey could web his eyes up and hit him with multiple punches, when he tries to rip the webbing off he could thn web his hands to his head and continue the assault. he is known for doing things like that. When Ares finally frees himself Petey could do the same to him over and over again. From the way that he kayoed guys as strong and durable (Absorbing Man) as Ares, this will not take him hours to do.

I know that you were hinting at batman in your every post BTW. Don't think for a moment that, that somehow flew over my head. i just didn't want to confront it. Batman has never held a building as large as the Flat iron building up, and stopped it from collapsing. he is not as strong as Spiderman, or even close.

I replied to the featureless environment point that you mentioned. Not denying anything, but I did state that I missed the environment being featureless in the OP, so we can move on. Right?

Originally posted by cdtm
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A few generic strong man tactics that might work:

Thunderclap.

Or, taking the ground out from under him, like Luke Cage got Danny under Claremont.

Edit: Oops, see someone mentioned TP.

Btw, that scan of Herc wailing on Ares? I believe Herc didn't even score the KO.. Not from that, at least.

Spiderman is not Luke Cage, or Iron Fist, he has something that they don't have. Low precognitive powers, webbing, and tactile traction. Spiderman literally has the ability to use every ounce of his strength when leaping, because he does not slip or slide when launching himself from point A to B.

Originally posted by Delta1938
I was talking about webbing someone up and spinning them around, smashing them into the environment. Often enough for it to be a likely tactic against Ares.

IIRC he was attacked by the Wrecking Crew, Titania, Absorbing Man, Goliath(the villain that would later become Atlas) and more, and I know he was drugged before.

Also none of those characters were as strong as Hercules but they still manged to place him in a coma. This bypassed his durability over time. The same can be said for Spiderman hitting Ares. Unless Ares is actually more durable than Namor, Absorbing Man, nd other characters that Spiderman has hurt with his strength. Also you are using one showing to make a case for Ares while ignoring dozens of showings that Spiderman has. Not really looking at this with an open mind IMO.

Originally posted by cdtm
I agree with Pr. Spidey's not strong enough, and not speedster enough to justify things like putting Masterson on the ropes.

If this was like a point based boxing match, Spidey wins. For the KO, it's not happening against a guy that aborbs full on cl100 hits.. He'll punch himself out just like he did against Black Tarantula.

He is strong enough based on what was shown several times.

^ It's a tactic, sure, but if webbing a cl100's eyes repeatedly were that effective a tactic for winning, Spider-Man would have stomped his cl100 opponents consistently. Pretty sure he hasn't.

While some Spidey proponents are arguing that a high-end Spidey's feats/formidability are being overlooked, the Ares' proponents are arguing the same. I mean... a bloodlusted Sentry is beyond Ares, but even against that level of foe, Ares gave as good as he got before the gruesome end. I don't see how a bloodlusted Spidey presents such an insurmountable obstacle.

Originally posted by ODG
^ It's a tactic, sure, but if webbing a cl100's eyes repeatedly were that effective a tactic for winning, Spider-Man would have stomped his cl100 opponents consistently. Pretty sure he hasn't.

While some Spidey proponents are arguing that a high-end Spidey's feats/formidability are being overlooked, the Ares' proponents are arguing the same. I mean... a bloodlusted Sentry is beyond Ares, but even against that level of foe, Ares gave as good as he got before the gruesome end. I don't see how a bloodlusted Spidey presents such an insurmountable obstacle.

But Ares is not a legit Class 100 according to others that are actually class 100. If he is, he's on the low end. The same can be said of Spiderman. i mean he supported the weight of the Flat iron building, he's lifted train cars, and Ares still has to actually hit him, which may not happen before he is kayoed. Strength is not the end all and be all when another character has the means or tools to get around those strengths.

Spiderman as i stated several times can lose this, but Ares has to hit him in order for that to become a reality. The Rhino is far stronger than Spiderman as well, and look at what Spiderman does to him. The Rhino is also faster than Spiderman in terms of running speed, which also leads us, or should lead us to the belief that he also has greater movement of limbs speed by proxy. Spiderman is simply never there when the punch is coming, but instead he finds his way behind him, or above him, tagging him with small doses of punishment. these are tools that he uses time and again to pull victories from guys that should have been able to one shot KO him.

Also what are Ares high end feats? The one showing against Hercules? Just the one versus several dozen of Spiderman's? Something does not equal up to the other, and never will.

Originally posted by Stoic
I know what you were saying Delta no worries there. However Petey could web his eyes up and hit him with multiple punches, when he tries to rip the webbing off he could thn web his hands to his head and continue the assault. he is known for doing things like that. When Ares finally frees himself Petey could do the same to him over and over again. From the way that he kayoed guys as strong and durable (Absorbing Man) as Ares, this will not take him hours to do.

I know that you were hinting at batman in your every post BTW. Don't think for a moment that, that somehow flew over my head. i just didn't want to confront it. Batman has never held a building as large as the Flat iron building up, and stopped it from collapsing. he is not as strong as Spiderman, or even close.

I replied to the featureless environment point that you mentioned. Not denying anything, but I did state that I missed the environment being featureless in the OP, so we can move on. Right?

He never kayoed absorbing man.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
He never kayoed absorbing man.

What happened in that scan? Was that a dream sequence? If not was he able to hurt Creel?

Originally posted by ODG
^ It's a tactic, sure, but if webbing a cl100's eyes repeatedly were that effective a tactic for winning, Spider-Man would have stomped his cl100 opponents consistently. Pretty sure he hasn't.

While some Spidey proponents are arguing that a high-end Spidey's feats/formidability are being overlooked, the Ares' proponents are arguing the same. I mean... a bloodlusted Sentry is beyond Ares, but even against that level of foe, Ares gave as good as he got before the gruesome end. I don't see how a bloodlusted Spidey presents such an insurmountable obstacle.

Originally posted by Stoic
But Ares is not a legit Class 100 according to others that are actually class 100. If he is, he's on the low end. The same can be said of Spiderman. i mean he supported the weight of the Flat iron building, he's lifted train cars, and Ares still has to actually hit him, which may not happen before he is kayoed. Strength is not the end all and be all when another character has the means or tools to get around those strengths.

Spiderman as i stated several times can lose this, but Ares has to hit him in order for that to become a reality. The Rhino is far stronger than Spiderman as well, and look at what Spiderman does to him. The Rhino is also faster than Spiderman in terms of running speed, which also leads us, or should lead us to the belief that he also has greater movement of limbs speed by proxy. Spiderman is simply never there when the punch is coming, but instead he finds his way behind him, or above him, tagging him with small doses of punishment. these are tools that he uses time and again to pull victories from guys that should have been able to one shot KO him.

Also what are Ares high end feats? The one showing against Hercules? Just the one versus several dozen of Spiderman's? Something does not equal up to the other, and never will.

Ares has fought Mikaboshi, War Machine, Hercules, Thor, Sentry, Ultron, Phobos, Rogue, Man-Thing, Skaar, Shaman Nate Grey, etc.

He's in another class.

Originally posted by Stoic
I know what you were saying Delta no worries there. However Petey could web his eyes up and hit him with multiple punches, when he tries to rip the webbing off he could thn web his hands to his head and continue the assault. he is known for doing things like that. When Ares finally frees himself Petey could do the same to him over and over again. From the way that he kayoed guys as strong and durable (Absorbing Man) as Ares, this will not take him hours to do.

I know that you were hinting at batman in your every post BTW. Don't think for a moment that, that somehow flew over my head. i just didn't want to confront it. Batman has never held a building as large as the Flat iron building up, and stopped it from collapsing. he is not as strong as Spiderman, or even close.

I replied to the featureless environment point that you mentioned. Not denying anything, but I did state that I missed the environment being featureless in the OP, so we can move on. Right?

But none of that is what you argued of Spidey webbing him up, spinning him around and smashing him into the environment, either through the floor after I pointed-out it's a default featureless environment, or even against normal city stuff(just to prove he uses tactics like that in general).

My point was both characters have feats that are well outside what they should be. I would rank what Batman did above Spidey supporting a building, but I wouldn't actually argue Batman really is stronger than Spider-Man.

😕 You didn't admit missing the featureless environment when I brought it up, but you did when I pointed-out you didn't say anything about it(just changed your argument to through the ground), so I didn't say anything after. Not sure why you're bringing this up now. Same with the Batman point.

Originally posted by Stoic
Also none of those characters were as strong as Hercules but they still manged to place him in a coma. This bypassed his durability over time. The same can be said for Spiderman hitting Ares. Unless Ares is actually more durable than Namor, Absorbing Man, nd other characters that Spiderman has hurt with his strength. Also you are using one showing to make a case for Ares while ignoring dozens of showings that Spiderman has. Not really looking at this with an open mind IMO.

Goliath/Atlas is supposed to be in the same class, and I think Tigershark as well(I mixed up that scene with She-Hulk's beating in SECRET WARS somewhat, it was actually Wrecking Crew, Mister Hyde, Tigershark and Goliath). And Hercules was compromised even before he got there, and they all beat his unconscious body after he was defeated. It's not an accurate comparison at all.

Originally posted by Stoic
Spiderman wouldn't fight him like that. he would also dictate the way the fight went because he has all of the tools to do just that. Spiderman would of course have to bait, hit and evade most of the time, but in the end he has a very good chance of taking Ares. He can not go blow for blow, nor would he.

Understood that Peter wouldn't fight like that, but what does Spidey have in his arsenal that's the equivalent of 15 or more haymakers from an enraged Hercules (in which Ares was pretty much unphased)? I've also read some talk that Spiderman would dance around and tire Ares out. Really? Ares is the Greek God of war. I truthfully think Spiderman is going to tire before Ares does. How long does somebody think the fight would go? I could see Ares fighting for days. Spiderman,,,not so much. Ares just needs to get his hands on him and eventually he would.

Originally posted by cdtm
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Btw, that scan of Herc wailing on Ares? I believe Herc didn't even score the KO.. Not from that, at least.

Ares wasn't even close to being KO'd. He busted Herc on the very next panel.

Originally posted by Stoic
What happened in that scan? Was that a dream sequence? If not was he able to hurt Creel?

Stop looking at scans. Creel was playing possum to force his girlfriend Titania to get over her fear of spiders and defend him. He also wanted to see if she really loved him and wouldn't leave him again. That being said. He NEVER beat Creel and only beat titania because she had a fear of spiders.

Originally posted by Delta1938
But none of that is what you argued of Spidey webbing him up, spinning him around and smashing him into the environment, either through the floor after I pointed-out it's a default featureless environment, or even against normal city stuff(just to prove he uses tactics like that in general).

My point was both characters have feats that are well outside what they should be. I would rank what Batman did above Spidey supporting a building, but I wouldn't actually argue Batman really is stronger than Spider-Man.

😕 You didn't admit missing the featureless environment when I brought it up, but you did when I pointed-out you didn't say anything about it(just changed your argument to through the ground), so I didn't say anything after. Not sure why you're bringing this up now. Same with the Batman point.

Goliath/Atlas is supposed to be in the same class, and I think Tigershark as well(I mixed up that scene with She-Hulk's beating in SECRET WARS somewhat, it was actually Wrecking Crew, Mister Hyde, Tigershark and Goliath). And Hercules was compromised even before he got there, and they all beat his unconscious body after he was defeated. It's not an accurate comparison at all.

Are you actually going to continue with this featureless environment situation? i mean is there a point aside from the fact that i missed that no description for the battlefield was actually given in the OP? I mean what is the point in continuing to bring it up for? Actually lets just deep six it, because I did say what happened in my mind. Are you looking for a crucifixion over something this minute? Lets just drop it, because it doesn't really matter.

You were hinting at Batman and other characters taking on things above their weight class from the start (mainly Batman). I just made it clear that i didn't miss the point form the first post that you hinted on it, however I wasn't intent on biting either. This seemed to me like you were indirectly calling any high end feat above Spiderman's weight class PIS, but I could be wrong. However It still keeps happening. On one hand, you seem to be sticking me with the featureless environment clause/ruling, while on the other, there is also a ruling in place that if something keeps happening it's no longer considered PIS.

Now let's talk about class in terms of lifting strength. Neither Tiger Shark, Mr, Hyde,Goliath, and any of the other Masters of Evil of that period were remotely within Hercules' strength class. The same goes for Ares. But you take one showing like others, and highlight it, because one writer had him do extremely well against him. This happened one time only, and you wouldn't consider that PIS? It only happened once. While on the other hand, Spiderman has taken out characters well above his weight class, and not due completely to strength, but power set, character and combat technique.

Originally posted by tkitna
Understood that Peter wouldn't fight like that, but what does Spidey have in his arsenal that's the equivalent of 15 or more haymakers from an enraged Hercules (in which Ares was pretty much unphased)? I've also read some talk that Spiderman would dance around and tire Ares out. Really? Ares is the Greek God of war. I truthfully think Spiderman is going to tire before Ares does. How long does somebody think the fight would go? I could see Ares fighting for days. Spiderman,,,not so much. Ares just needs to get his hands on him and eventually he would.

This is exactly what I just finished saying to Delta, Ares had one good showing, which could be considered PIS, because he has yet to prove that he is even close to Hercules in strength. Not only this, but Hercules, and anyone in his weight class has proven that they were always portrayed above Ares in terms of strength. Heck Namor isn't even as strong as Hercules at his best, and he's stronger than Ares under his most optimal condition (hydrated). My point is that people are really trying to drive one low showing of Hercules against Ares, while calling Spiderman's dozens of feats PIS. If Spiderman can hurt the Absorbing Man amplified with stone for greater durability, and who is actually a true class 100, why wouldn't he be able to hurt Ares? Ares does not, and never has been touted as being invulnerable.

Tough? Sure, but not invulnerable. This isn't going to last for hours, and days, it's going to take minutes or less if we take Spiderman's feats at face value. It didn't take him hours and days to hurt Creel, Namor, Rhino, Rogue (classic), etc. It's not going to take him that long to hurt Ares. Now can Ares win this? Absolutely. But so can Peter, he just has to be at the top of his game, and not get hit.

Originally posted by tkitna
Ares wasn't even close to being KO'd. He busted Herc on the very next panel.

Was Herc fighting to kill? Was Ares? This is really something that needs investigating. There are different levels of pain that a character of Herc's power can deal out if he was going for the kill. Ares on the other hand is always going for the kill.