Spiderman vs Ares (Marvel)

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I told him his analogy was wrong.

That was my reframing of his point. And it leads to the implication that Luke > Hulk. IOW, I never understood the point he was trying to make - because it doesn't make sense, and used an incorrect analogy.

[b]But to switch things up:
So what showings of ARES makes you think that Spiderman would be able to KO him?

I know you will cling to the showings of Spidey, but how about the other way round?

You are saying he has the offense (his treatment of heralds) and the defense (his speed/agility/SS) to stay in the game.

Masterson is Masterson, and Titania is Titania. How about Ares? What makes you think he does not have the durability to stand up to seven Masterson level punches, or nine Firelord punches? [/B]

You said that his analogy of Wolverine was wrong. The rest could not be wrong, because you can't justify it as being so. Else you wouldn't have singled Wolverine out, and left the rest alone.

Now let's get down to the facts. Spiderman hit Firelord more times throughout the fight than you think. Those other hits also come into play. I mean before he decided to dig in and finally take it to Firelord.

It can be argued that Ares is not actually within the herald tier DS. I don't believe that the Thing is within that tier, and I think Ben would beat Ares up in unarmed combat, He's stronger. Also was Hercules in his immortal form at the time of his run in with Ares? This is important, because it would drop Hercules' power level by a decent margin. This was seen when the Hulk brutally beat the shit out of him when he lost his immortality as opposed to Hercules holding his ground against a mindless Hulk when he was immortal.

Originally posted by Stoic
You said that his analogy of Wolverine was wrong. The rest could not be wrong, because you can't justify it as being so. Else you wouldn't have singled Wolverine out, and left the rest alone.

I then ignored the point about black holes etc, because...well, what is there to say?

The ONLY point he made that is actually relevant, was his incorrect analogy.

Now let's get down to the facts. Spiderman hit Firelord more times throughout the fight than you think. Those other hits also come into play. I mean before he decided to dig in and finally take it to Firelord.

It can be argued that Ares is not actually within the herald tier DS. I don't believe that the Thing is within that tier, and I think Ben would beat Ares up in unarmed combat, He's stronger. Also was Hercules in his immortal form at the time of his run in with Ares? This is important, because it would drop Hercules' power level by a decent margin. This was seen when the Hulk brutally beat the shit out of him when he lost his immortality as opposed to Hercules holding his ground against a mindless, Hulk when he was immortal.

Stronger - more durable? The two things are different. This is not a weightlifting match. Again, what durability showings of ARES do you have to suggest he would fall to Spidey? NOT Titania, or Firelord, or Masterson - ARES.

Please read the comic I even had the grace to link for you. AND posted an extract for you to read. Attempt to pick as many holes as you want; it's pretty watertight.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So how many Spidey punches equal one Herc? I am assuming Ares just stands here BTW, and is allowing Spiderman to punch him freely (so Spidey doesn't have to waste energy dodging or jumping).

15 Herc punches added together didn't take their toll. Does Spidey have special fists?

So how many?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Because that was the only pertinent point. No point saying that Spiderman has not hurt people above his weight class - we all know he has. But just because he has done so in a comic fight, does not mean that he would do the same to Ares. Because ABC logic does not work.

I then ignored the point about black holes etc, because...well, what is there to say?

The ONLY point he made that is actually relevant, was his incorrect analogy.

How many times, then?

[b]

Stronger - more durable? The two things are different. This is not a weightlifting match. Again, what durability showings of ARES do you have to suggest he would fall to Spidey? NOT Titania, or Firelord, or Masterson - ARES.

Please read the comic I even had the grace to link for you. AND posted an extract for you to read. Attempt to pick as many holes as you want; it's pretty watertight.

Was Hercules Immortal at the time of the fight with Ares? This is important because it would change the attitude of the circumstances being discussed at this very moment. I have to go to the mechanic so this will have to wait. Your scans like I said are meaningless if Hercules is in his mortal form during that battle with Ares. From my knowledge Zeus never gave him back his immortality. If he did, citations are needed. Let's not paint over what is, and what is not DS.

Originally posted by h1a8
I would say about 5 bloodlusted punches at Spidey's top strength shown would equal 1 average Hercules punch.

Excellent.

So Spiderman can CONSISTENTLY punch, and his 10th (or 20th) punch would be as powerful as his 1st, when he was fresh?

So, 15 punches, AND a missile (in short order; I am ignoring the later missiles and punches) DIDN'T KO him.

15 x 5 = 75 punches.

How many Spidey punches = one missile to the face? Bear in mind, immediately after getting a face full of missile, Ares immediately grabbed another out of the air and redirected it. So wasn't even dazed.

Let's say a missile = 25 punches. So a nice round 100.

Spidey will throw 100 bloodlusted, top strength punches CONSISTENTLY, without tiring, and his 100th punch would be as powerful as his 1st.

IT STILL WON'T PUT ARES DOWN.

This ignores of course any energy expenditure in Spidey jumping/dodging. And Ares was as fresh as ever after this.

Originally posted by Stoic
Was Hercules Immortal at the time of the fight with Ares? This is important because it would change the attitude of the circumstances being discussed at this very moment. I have to go to the mechanic so this will have to wait. Your scans like I said are meaningless if Hercules is in his mortal form during that battle with Ares. From my knowledge Zeus never gave him back his immortality. If he did, citations are needed. Let's not paint over what is, and what is not DS.

Reposted from the previous page:

Are you being dense on purpose? Or just lazy to go to the previous page?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Reposted from the previous page:

Are you being dense on purpose? Or just lazy to go to the previous page?

That could have been writer error, because No one ever wrote a story that I know of where Zeus restores Herc's immortality. Watch the tone, because this is obviously a misunderstanding. What is needed are citations of Zeus restoring Herc's immortality, not some statement from Ares.

So it ends in a stalemate since either can't put the other down. Spiderman has withstood punches from being stronger than Ares (and Ares will not land many blows anyways, if any at all) and Spiderman can't drop Ares since Ares withstood blows from powerful beings and well. The battle of two Juggernauts.

Originally posted by Stoic
That could have been writer error, because Noone ever wrote a story that I know of where Zeus restores Herc's immortality. Watch the tone, because this is obviously a misunderstanding. What is needed are citations of Zeus restoring Herc's immortality, not some statement from Ares.

You mean in the 90s when Zeus stripped him of his immortality?

Originally posted by carver9
So it ends in a stalemate since either can't put the other down. Spiderman has withstood punches from being stronger than Ares (and Ares will not land many blows anyways, if any at all) and Spiderman can't drop Ares since Ares withstood blows from powerful beings and well. The battle of two Juggernauts.

He needs but one, with his axe.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He needs but one, with his axe.

He will never get it in.

Originally posted by carver9
He will never get it in.

Then stalemate, until Spidey punches himself out with all this leaping and dodging that he will be doing. You forget Ares will outlast Spidey 😈 Spidey WILL tire, he WILL make a mistake - and that is when he will get crushed.

Do you agree with h1's '5 Peter punches = 1 Herc punch'?

Originally posted by Stoic
That could have been writer error, because No one ever wrote a story that I know of where Zeus restores Herc's immortality. Watch the tone, because this is obviously a misunderstanding. What is needed are citations of Zeus restoring Herc's immortality, not some statement from Ares.

Read the story.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Then stalemate, until Spidey punches himself out with all this leaping and dodging that he will be doing. You forget Ares will outlast Spidey 😈 Spidey WILL tire, he WILL make a mistake - and that is when he will get crushed.

Do you agree with h1's '5 Peter punches = 1 Herc punch'?

Spiderman can rest in between webbing Ares eyes, putting webbing down his throat, etc...Ares is a guy that enjoys talking and boasting.

No, I don't agree with it.

Originally posted by carver9
Spiderman can rest in between webbing Ares eyes, putting webbing down his throat, etc...Ares is a guy that enjoys talking and boasting.

No, I don't agree with it.

In character, a bloodlusted Peter sits down to rest?

Scans please.

Also, I thought your entire argument was based around speedblitzing? Now you're stopping to take a rest?

Ares doesn't need to breathe, btw.

So how many Peter punches = 1 Herc?

Originally posted by carver9
He will never get it in.

Because Spidey's never been hit before?

It's happened more then Spiderman vs Firelord moments. Off the top of my head, Castle shooting him, and Thanos's construct catching and killing Spidey in Infinity Gauntlet for two examples.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
In character, a bloodlusted Peter sits down to rest?

Scans please.

Also, I thought your entire argument was based around speedblitzing? Now you're stopping to take a rest?

Ares doesn't need to breathe, btw.

So how many Peter punches = 1 Herc?

Thats why I said it was a stalemate. We are talking about Juggernauts here. Spiderman has endured a beat down from the Phoenix Force (even though they were holding back, their blows/power is far above Ares).

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125644/3157955-avx9-3.jpg

He even withstand an explosion from two Phoenix wielding beings that were out to kill each other.

http://media.insidepulse.com/zones/insidepulse/uploads/2012/08/AVX-019.jpg

He was immortal at the time just checked.

Originally posted by cdtm
Because Spidey's never been hit before?

It's happened more then Spiderman vs Firelord moments. Off the top of my head, Castle shooting him, and Thanos's construct catching and killing Spidey in Infinity Gauntlet for two examples.

To people like Ares, yes.

So Carver, your evidence is a scene where Spidey doesn't leap around and avoid getting the snot beat out of him? 😛