KMC Secret Wars: Scoobs vs Existere

The End is Nigh!

As we are now (finally) at the conclusions, I won't tourney-quote/reply Existere's last post, except for one part:

Originally posted by Existere
because Dr. Light didn’t use that tactic against Cyborg, he won’t use it against Droidtastic… but I’m in control here,

Originally posted by Blair Wind
[ [b]Self or Characters: We're drafting the characters, not granting ourselves the powers. So CIS is on the table.[/B]

Ok let's get this thing done:

Power Comparison:

[list][*] Strength - Droidtastic >>>>> Psychadelic
[*] Durability - Droidtastic >>>>> Psychadelic
[*] Energy Projection - Droidtastic > Psychadelic
[*]Energy Absorption - Droidtastic >/= Psychadelic
[*]Reflexes - Droidtastic >> Psychadelic
[*]Thought processing speed - Droidtastic >>>>>> Psychadelic
[*]Flight speed - Psychadelic >>>Droidtastic
[*]Logic/brain power - Droidtastic >>>> Psychadelic
[*]Stamina - Droidtastic >>>>>>>>>> Psychadelic [/list]

I'm glad this is a fight and not simply a race.

This type of match is a game of belief and misdirection. We generally believe everything we post about our amalgams based on how we'd like to see the characters actually use the power-sets in the comics, but just because we wrack our own imaginations thinking "why shouldn't he/she/it be able to do A/B/C/etc" the fact is, in these events it is either supported by similar showings or it is inadmissible.

As such, I now ask you to consider the evidence both Existere and myself have laid out in this match and consider whether it (and it alone, not what has been claimed or what you yourself might believe possible under another writer) is supported by that evidence.

I have (I believe) stayed well within my characters proven ability limitations throughout this match:

Shapeshifting / Extreme Density / Super reflex speed (mind and body) / Heat absorption / Strength / resistance to TP & TK / Force fields / being a murderer
[list][*]I could've sworn I posted this before [/list]

DEFENCE

Existere is often using one type of scan to prove an unrelated type of feat is possible:

False Claims:
[list][*]Solid Dr. Light performing drain to support immaterial Dr. Light performing drain
[*]Solid Dr. Light power use = photonic Dr. Light power use
[*]Psylocke affecting tech related biological life forms to show susceptability of completely non-biological life forms to TP
[*]Dr. Light is a speedster[/list]

In fact, that basically sums it up, he is completely counting on these key points in this match-up.

NONE of these points have been proven. Dr. Light absorbing light based constructs/powers is not the same as absorbing electrical energy from a machine, a brain or anything else, it has NEVER happened (ever) even though he has fought against exactly that type of foe before.

As for the psi-blade - I have yet to see it penetrate an energy barrier, especially one on par with the Invisible Woman (which has specifically resisted psionic powers before)

Even if the psi-blade connects, the chances of it taking out my central processor are extremely remote, even more-so since I discovered (after the tourney started) that Vision is now a nonotech android whose body is composed of hundreds (thousands?) of mini-androids

It takes more than straight line travel speed to be considered a "speedster". One scan of shooting Superman (which I have stomped into the ground a couple of times already) does not a speedster make. Dr. Light doesn't even have one single showing to prove his reflexes would be on par with Daredevil or even Robin.

Fudging with the lights: I think Existere gave up on this strategy after I posted Visions scanning ability. It proved a waste of time for him to even attempt it.

Telepathy: We've both been over this a bunch. Obviously we will not agree as we are trying to dismantle each other's defences, I just ask you to go look at my defence scans again, he asked for a Psylocke caliber TP failing against machines, I gave you Xavier, Nate Grey, Psylocke herself, Oracle and Despero if that isn't proof, or at the very least "reasonable doubt" then I don't know what is.

OFFENCE

Yeah, well.... ok, I didn't give a huge variety of plans of attack because, frankly, it's hard to hit a guy when he is made of photons.

What I did give you was proof that those phtons can be caged or hypnotised while also proving that those photons can do absolutely nothing to defeat a being who would absorb their heat upon contact and become more powerful. I know "imprisonment" isn't a commonly used tactic, but you gotta play the hand your dealt.
[list][*]and light-based beings can not pass through sufficiently dense foes [/list]

The main point is this:

In order for Psychadelic to even attempt to attack Droidtastic, he will have to solidify, at this point my creation's superior reflexes and power will end this fight. Violently!

outstanding job, gentlemen. 👆 hopefully our judges can get their votes in and we can move on to the final by next week. judges, kindly submit your votes to bw. bw, it might be faster to post the result as soon as you have a majority. thanks again to all involved.

DarkSaint85 wrote on Mar 29th, 2015 06:22 PM:
My vote is for Existere.

Charlotte DeBel wrote on Mar 30th, 2015 09:13 AM:
Very close strat. So... let's go.

Amalgamation - I DO not believe in total immunity against psionics resulting from robot/human amalgam. If anything, Droidtastic is something like Karima Shapandar - which HAD psi-blades used on her successfully.
But then it's where bad news for Smurph come - TK knife is a close relative of those very blasts the Sue Storm shielding deflects. So while this route of attack is not specifically out, its power will be diminished.

Next- CIS is on, so "using the powers of characters better than the characters used them on panel" is off. Iron Lad and Super Skrull are highly adaptable in the ways Betsy & Doctor Light are not.
This is the repeat of why I was not convinced of Raven using phased form for attack. NO showings of energy drain from solid Doctor Light, and Betsy not having Emma's schtick of using the powers of bodies she possess in a way original user could not swayed my vote in Scoobless favor. Though this was very, very close, and thanks again for the outstanding fight.

Newjak wrote on Apr 1st, 2015 07:16 PM:
Good match guys.

First thing I will say is I was disappointed with the attempts to pass of now only different characters but different characters from other companies.

I'm sorry but just because Monica can go through Magento's shields doesn't mean I am automatically going to believe Light will bypass the Skrull's shields.

Or that because Despero couldn't mind rape the Red Tornado that I will use that feat for Vision.

Okay small rant over.

Let's break this down.

Telepathy:
I think Scoobs did a good job of showing that Vision's mind is telepathic resistance. I'm not sure I agree with Existere's interpretation of Vision not having his synthetic mind.

Existere's blade is awesome. I would have liked to see it used against a phased opponent though as Scoobs has said he will be using his phasing abilities in this match.

Speed:
I don't think based on the evidence presented that Light has light speed reactions. Does he have good travel speed yes but Scoob's raised valid concerns and scans showing that Light may not be that fast.

Vision/Skrull may not be as fast in straight speed but from an analytic standpoint he can process a lot.

Defense:
Light's light form is cool but I'm not sure how offensive he can be against Scoob's character. Flying through humans is cool but Scoob's character is a little more durable than that.

I'm not sure is Scoob's force field can keep out Existere or his blade.

I also do not think they will be able to effectively hide from each other.

Offense

So if Existere goes physical form he defeinitely doesn't have the durability based on scans to take anything from Scoob's character.

I don't know how effective the knife will be on phased Vision.

Light's draining powers are extremely dangerous though as shown by Existere. I'm not sure if he can drain all of Vision/Skrull's powers but I'm not sure Scoobs countered well enough.

It's tough but I think Existere's character is a little too fragile.

Vote to Scoobs

abhilegend wrote on Apr 5th, 2015 01:23 AM:
Smurph has used a very clever amalgamation and I thought Scoob used too much of ABC comparison in his arguments. I was convinced by Smurph that Psylocke can affect Vision and Scoob couldn't really post a good rebuttal for that. Also his attempts to show Dr. Light's speed is slow was strange.

Also Scoob really didn't put too much emphasis on how he could beat Smurph's character, he spent too much time on defensive. That hurt his arguments too.

So it was close, but my vote goes to Smurf.

"Id" wrote on Apr 9th, 2015 02:35 PM:
My own power comparison.

[list]
[*]Strength - Droidtastic
[*]Durability - Droidtastic
[*]Energy Projection - Psychadelic
[*]Energy Absorption/Manipulation - Psychadelic
[*]Reflexes - Psychadelic
[*]Speed - Psychadelic
[*]Thought processing speed - Psychadelic
[*]Flight speed - Psychadelic
[*]Logic/brain power - Droidtastic
[*]Abilities/Adaptability - Droidtastic
[*]Stamina - Tie
[/list]

I am convinced that Droidtastic holds more physical prowess thanks to the Vision/SS. Interesting enough Scoobs put together an Amalgam that benefits in calling up several powers, on top being able to shape his body into virtually anything thanks to Skrull/Mr. Fantastic, on top of the ability to break down the body into individual nanites. Its one of the more adaptable teams in this turney. A combination of Abilities, Adaptability, and raw physical force. Nice.

On to Psychadelic. Take a Psychic Ninja, that has trained for her actions and thoughts to be cohesive, and grant her a luminous body, and photonic powers, than yes the result would be a lightspeed ninja with psychic and energy powers to boot. Speed kills, and when a speedster is armed with Omega Level Psy, makes her extremely deadly. Bueno.

That rounds out the above.
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Lets remove the Elephants in the room.

Scoobs should relay more on using scans from the characters history he pick or is combating, and less from other characters as they may not fall under equivalence of exchange or interchangeable.

Cloaking will not work for either. Their perceptive abilities are too vast to keep each other out of the radar.

Hypnosis depending on how its being applied can be a form of ESP. In this case, because Super Kl'rt is projecting a mental wave, and identifies it as a power, it falls as one of the many psychic powers.

Droidtastic shields would block hard psi, and hard physical force. The shields are designed as so. Meaning Psychadelic would not phase through it, even in energy form. I am not convinced Psychadelic could drain the shields, given that they are an exotic form of energy, outside of Dr. Lights influence.

I did not see anything on how Droidtastic would be able to harm Psychadelic in his energy form. Scoobs made a point of how Light was being beaten, and harmed. But that was in his physical form. Likewise there was no claim, or proof in on behalf of Scoob showing he could force Psychadelic into human form, and beat on him. Therefore his point was a wash.
________________________________________________
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The match seemed even to me. With either side unable to reach, or harm each other. However the argument was brought up on the effectiveness of Telepathy over Droidtastic.

Scoobs pointed out that invisible shields would hold off TP. But Existere, refuted by pointing out that the piece of evidence is invalid, due to Jean not having TP at the time. No other scans claiming the same where submitted. Only hard psy, which is not the same as soft psy for which telepathy falls under.

Scoobs pointed out that Vision was immune to telepathy. Therefore Droidtastic would be immune as well. But later on admits that the Old hag took down Vision, and the Avengers with her psi-powers. Which makes his point conflicting, if not confusing.

Lastly Vision may (or may not) be immune to telepathy. But his character is an amalgam, of Machine & Flesh. Therefore I would treat his amalgam as so. At best Droidstatic would benefit from protection, but not an outright immunity to telepathy. And as such, Existere pointed out that Betsy has taken out plenty of Techno-Organic life forms including some really nasty ones with protection or shielding like:
Angel with the power of the Death-Seed
Arkea/Omega Sentinal
Cable, Fantomex, Meme, etc..(that is a monstrous feat)

I reward the match to Existere. Psychadelic superior speed, and reflexes insures that his telepathy would shut down Droidtastic in the opening bell.

Winner: Existere - Psychadelic

Winner: Existere

well played gents, and a huge thanks to id for the emergency assist. 👆

Thanks to the four judges who actually read through the match.

Special thanks to DarkSaint85 for his unique input... I like the "read the thread title and flip a coin" style, you should totes be a real judge!

🙂

I did have a lot of fun in this tourney, and tried to make the best case I could.
When I saw the drafts and match-ups I thought "great the two intangible guys are fighting, we're just going to float around being unable to harm each other, his TP won't affect a machine, my energy attacks would be absorbed... can't punch light waves... "

🙄

Obviously things evolved from that idea, but, I admit, I couldn't find a legitimate attack if he stayed intangible, just as he could not hope to win a physical fight in, basically, a human body. So I focused on bolstering my defence and throwing doubt on his offence.

Yes, there was a lot of scans shown for characters who were not involved, Despero, Xavier, etc... the truth is, I couldn't find any other showings of Vision fighting telepaths, and since Vision is so unique, Ex had the same problem, showing viruses and sentinels and such. Power comparisons of other telepaths Vs machines were the only examples I could use.
_____________________

I do find the judgements very interesting in that you were swayed in opposite directions on the same points:

Newjak wrote on Apr 1st, 2015 07:16 PM:
Scoobs did a good job of showing that Vision's mind is telepathic resistance.
I don't think based on the evidence presented that Light has light speed reactions. Does he have good travel speed yes but Scoob's raised valid concerns and scans showing that Light may not be that fast. - Scoobs

abhilegend wrote on Apr 5th, 2015 01:23 AM:
I was convinced by Smurph that Psylocke can affect Vision
his attempts to show Dr. Light's speed is slow was strange - Smurf.

Charlotte DeBel wrote on Mar 30th, 2015 09:13 AM:
NO showings of energy drain from solid Doctor Light - Scoobless

"Id" wrote on Apr 9th, 2015 02:35 PM:
I did not see anything on how Droidtastic would be able to harm Psychadelic in his energy form.

Yeah, for me, it all came down to making you believe that Psychadelic would have to become physical to use any offensive powers. And that the drain, his only avenue of physical attack, would be more trouble than it's worth. Guess I got it 40% right... 😛

This last part, from Id:

"Id" wrote on Apr 9th, 2015 02:35 PM:
Super Kl'rt is projecting a mental wave, and identifies it as a power, it falls as one of the many psychic powers.

Scoobs pointed out that Vision was immune to telepathy. Therefore Droidtastic would be immune as well. But later on admits that the Old hag took down Vision, and the Avengers with her psi-powers. Which makes his point conflicting, if not confusing -Existere

Actually, I have a couple of scans showing that the power is 100% visual based, no psi involved.... I didn't post them because they basically prove that his hypnosis is a form of light (and we all know how that would have backfired in this match) Didn't want to shoot myself in the foot if avoidable.

The "old hag" thing - yes, she took out that team of Avengers, but it wasn't via telepathy, it was Psionic, but it was more of a TK blast. Just showing she's not the weakling Smurf claimed. It wasn't really relevant to her telepathy powers at all... I just left you all to fill in the blanks yourself, guess that backfired a little too.

_______________

Actually when I drafted my characters I just stuck with the first combo I thought of and hoped no-one drafted Magneto or a technopath, I knew others, especially Digi, were trying to be tricky as hell with drafts, I just tried to keep it simple and go with characters I knew and liked, maybe next time I'll go more exotic.

C'est la vie, better luck next time.

Good Game Exismurf, good luck in the final, you're the first (and hopefully last) person to knock me out in the first round of a tourney.

aw....and love returns to the hearts of men.... 😄 see, i toldja all he wasn't the crotchedy pr!ck he was acting like. i got yer back scoob, always. 👆

What can I say, If you want to compare my vote to Newjak, it's not really fair to Newjak.

sneer

Originally posted by abhilegend
What can I say, If you want to compare my vote to Newjak, it's not really fair to Newjak.

sneer

Originally posted by Newjak
Bring Abhi I will out judge you all day everyday sneer

Kinky.

mmm