Where does well trained end and top tier MA begin?

Nods to Carver9 in the Nightwing/Kitty Pryde thread, where he says she's s grade A MA trained by the best.

A lot of characters are trained in H2h/MA, some are definitely WELL trained...but really, not everyone can be top tier.

Just to get the ball rolling, i consider Kitty to be well trained yeah, but not top tier. Sans her powers she has no reason to beat NW.
Cyclops, Storm, Luke Cage...well trained.
They know what they're doing, and stripped of powers would mow down a fair number of henchmen or glass cannon villains for sure, but have no claim beating on top tier fighters like Nightwing.

Agree/disagree?

Any lists of examples welcome.

Im curious where someone like Shatterstar would be placed. In mojoverse he's supposed to be elite, but without weapons I don't know where he'd rank compared to Cap.

There's no actual answer to this. Any opinion is just an arbitrary line drawn in the sand. Sorry.

Originally posted by Digi
There's no actual answer to this. Any opinion is just an arbitrary line drawn in the sand. Sorry.

Damn thread deflater!

GET. OUT.

It's not a vs thread so why is it in here?

Because forum labels aren't absolutes, and the mods have day jobs. If there's discussion, it hardly matters anyway.

/shrug

Digi has a point. It's difficult to assuage who ranks where without an encyclopedic knowledge of everyone and everything. At that point debating no longer is fun. Plus characters like nw go up and down depending on events, writers, etc. He could beat shiva one day and lose to a mook the next.

Anybody remember the MA tier thread in the comics section?

THAT was a cluster****.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Anybody remember the MA tier thread in the comics section?

THAT was a cluster****.

😂 sadly yes.

Punisher or Widow are my personal Laylines. If you beat them your in the top tier imo.

This is like the street tier version of the big 3 HH debate.

...It's difficult to assuage who ranks where without an encyclopedic knowledge of everyone and everything...

Originally posted by riv6672
Just wanted to concentrate on this part of a good response (thanks).
So, we should just stick to easy topics, then?
I mean, Superman vs Thor can be fun, but its hardly a mental exercise.
I try and start interesting converstions.
-shrug-

Someone mentioned above i think it was kris but anyway, he mentioned that their was a ma tier thread. I suggest you look at that to get a better answer. Imo nightwing should never surpass daredevil. I feel they are true equals. Others may disagree. It's all arbitrary. You'll NEVER get a consensus.

I appreciate the spite response, thanks, they're hard to come by.

What i was curious about was those that straddle the line, like how Spider-man is about as high as a street leveler can go before they arent street levelers anymore.
Characters like Nick Fury, Dr. Strange...

Spidey's not street, he's a mid tier meta. Only.reason he doeen't wipe the floor with every street (Or group of streets) he fights is because he has "World of Cardboard" syndrome (They did a story where he beat Sin Eater out of anger, later saw the aftermath of his crippled body, and could't handle it. Had a nervous breakdown.)

Originally posted by cdtm
Spidey's not street, he's a mid tier meta. Only.reason he doeen't wipe the floor with every street (Or group of streets) he fights is because he has "World of Cardboard" syndrome (They did a story where he beat Sin Eater out of anger, later saw the aftermath of his crippled body, and could't handle it. Had a nervous breakdown.)

And yet he's a classic street level hero, stopping muggers, rescuing kittens.
Hence my question.

By that definition, Superman's a street level hero. 😛

You're taking me too literally, but thats okay.
I'm not going to beat my example into the ground over it.

Anyhow, straddling the line, thats what i was hoping to suss out MA/h2h wise.

As to why, i've noticed when some characters that arent strictly h2h (Cyclops is a recent example) get put in those situations, they're suddeny treated as if they have if not Bruce Lee, then Jackie Chan level skills.
I find that funny and thought it'd be fun to look at.

Well unless you're herald level most street and meta level characters have atleast some degree of ma skills. Scott is one of them.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Anybody remember the MA tier thread in the comics section?

THAT was a cluster****.

Damian didn't get moved down, of course. Just all the Marvel characters.