Feminists outraged by Batgirl Cover....DC bows down...

Originally posted by -Pr-
I just realised you and I aren't going to agree on anything, so not going to drag this out any longer than it has to.

I would implore you though, to PLEASE read up on GG and see what the Anti side are doing. And you can say that they aren't a cohesive group if you like, but the same can be said about GG.

One, I have looked up GG, a lot. That's the issue. And the 'antis'. The big names against it are engaging in... zero harassment. There's been some attacks on the side by isolated actors (and not as bad as the GG attacks), but no-one who has major support has supported them.

Two, GG is a banner people willingly chose to use, and GG does have a choice in who it supports, and yet the most supported named tend to be pro-harassment.

GG often says 'do more research,' but it pretty much boils down to 'keep on looking at what we say until you agree with us.' The research fairly heavily comes down on one side.

The research paints a very, very poor picture of GG, but paints a much rosier one of many who oppose it. Tell me when GG gets a Wil Wheaton.

This horrible, one-sided demonising is not helping anyone, and it just makes people pick sides when they should be working together.

Look, if you support a harassment movement, you can just stop. And being against it does help support those against a harassment movement.

GG keeps on attacking people. It's not interesting in not attacking certain people. As long as it keeps doing that, people'll be against it.

This is not complex, PR, and it's not both side's fault, it's the fault of their own actions and who they support.

I'm not going to say I found what you said offensive, but please, read up on the subject some more.

I have, for months. That's the problem.

I suggest you do, and from non-GG sources, and without writing off anything against them as a 'hit piece.'

Gamergate is not gaming. It has seriously hurt the image of gaming, which I love, and attacked gamers, game makers, and people who have not attacked anyone, and done so for months without end and view being called on doing just that as a reason to continue on against said targets.

And back on this topic, they're also part of why people claim "The feminists are the problem!" have so little credibility. Ya start one movement targeting many people based on false pretenses and now everyone looking to attack similar people in different areas with similar rhetoric will suffer by association.

I disagree with pretty much everything you said, but you knew that. For you to be so dismissive, and so... I don't even know the word to use.

You know, I can admit that seeing a lot of the shit that comes off tumblr does make me a bit cynical, but I honestly never expected to find that kind of stuff here. For you to show such blatant disregard for the actual facts while claiming to show them... I honestly thought you were better than that, I guess.

I honestly dunno what to say. Kind of lost interest in participating in the thread, tbh. shrug

😂

Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
😂

Jesus Christ.

Apologies if I seemed at all melodramatic.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Apologies if I seemed at all melodramatic.

I just think it's hilarious to demonize a movement based on the top "figures" not being overly aggressive when the "minions" are just as bad or worse than the opposition. Even though the figureheads lie about bomb threats or attack themselves unknowingly when they're still signed in. Among other things. They design their words to try and drum up threats.

I remember when there were death threats against a 10 year old for having an opinion. There's lots of that shit from the SJWs. All it is threats now and swearing at people for nothing.

It's stupid. For that matter actually having a side is stupid. Both sides are dumb. But at least one side isn't shaped under cult rules and wants to change everything to suit their needs. People don't have to walk on eggshells so they don't offend everyone with what was meant to just be an innocent post.

I'd rather have developers have free reign to create whatever they want than to have them get shamed into doing what the "fans" want. Look at Bioware for example. All they do is pander to the sjws and they still get shit on by them.

But I digress. This is stupid. Changing shit because of whiners is dumb. That Spider Woman cover for example was hilarious due to the hate it recieved. I don't even get how that is where the line is drawn.

I can't stand people who think something (especially art, or something similarly subjective) ought to be changed because they don't like it.

Don't like the cover? Cool, don't buy it. I just can't figure out why this culture of whining has become so prevalent.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
I can't stand people who think something (especially art, or something similarly subjective) ought to be changed because they don't like it.

Don't like the cover? Cool, don't buy it. I just can't figure out why this culture of whining has become so prevalent.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Not you.

I just think it's hilarious to demonize a movement based on the top "figures" not being overly aggressive when the "minions" are just as bad or worse than the opposition. Even though the figureheads lie about bomb threats or attack themselves unknowingly when they're still signed in. Among other things. They design their words to try and drum up threats.

I remember when there were death threats against a 10 year old for having an opinion. There's lots of that shit from the SJWs. All it is threats now and swearing at people for nothing.

It's stupid. For that matter actually having a side is stupid. Both sides are dumb. But at least one side isn't shaped under cult rules and wants to change everything to suit their needs. People don't have to walk on eggshells so they don't offend everyone with what was meant to just be an innocent post.

I'd rather have developers have free reign to create whatever they want than to have them get shamed into doing what the "fans" want. Look at Bioware for example. All they do is pander to the sjws and they still get shit on by them.

But I digress. This is stupid. Changing shit because of whiners is dumb. That Spider Woman cover for example was hilarious due to the hate it recieved. I don't even get how that is where the line is drawn.

I agree with everything you said.

I was just getting to the point where I knew I was going to stop filtering my language, and I don't want to be THAT guy.

I get that I may seem intense at times, but that's usually only because I feel strongly about certain things. Not because I genuinely am shouting at someone like I want to silence them.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Your sig promotes abortions and being lord of a group. Change it you ****ing shitlord before I come to your house and slit your throat.

Oh shit. *changes everything* Trigger warning!!

Originally posted by Q99
Batgirl's a solo hero and has been for a long time, though.

And 'try to find male equivalents' strikes me as a good thing to try anyway. Succeed or fail, it adds to the discussion.

Maybe there's just some I- and the other people who have issues with it- don't know about!

I don't think they're *common* in any case. I can't even remember Robin having a cover like this.

For the record, I'm agreeing with you and I don't know any male(even the young ones) equivalents. I can't remember Robin having a similar cover. I just think that point is better illustrated by highlighting that, rather than people focusing on Batman/Superman. Feels like there's larger factors than gender at play there.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I agree with everything you said.

I was just getting to the point where I knew I was going to stop filtering my language, and I don't want to be THAT guy.

I get that I may seem intense at times, but that's usually only because I feel strongly about certain things. Not because I genuinely am shouting at someone like I want to silence them.

Not everyone of course but that goes both ways. There's no high ground on either side, just one doesn't annoy as much.

As someone who doesn't care about either though, The Sjw is much more annoying because it potentially destroys two of my favorite things, gaming and comics. I don't give a shit if some no names trying to build fame via getting attacked get attacked. I don't care if some 10 year old gets attacked for liking Dead or Alive. What I don't like is when "fans" attack developers in droves for not abiding to their own personal ideals.

I don't want every game to be about gay dudes and trannies and the white man is evil. I want games to be made with the same freedom they had before 2012ish.

srug

Originally posted by StyleTime
True, although it seems like the shadow of the "real" hero hangs over her in the same way it does practically every spin off. Maybe that changed, as I didn't follow her for long.

For the record, I'm agreeing with you and I don't know any male(even the young ones) equivalents. I can't remember Robin having a similar cover. I just think that point is better illustrated by highlighting that, rather than people focusing on Batman/Superman. Feels like there's larger factors than gender at play there.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Meh this is like the first time I've ever really talked about it. It's really too stupid to actually discuss. If people don't see that the sjw side has rampant threats as well and are actually good people then there's no point.

Not everyone of course but that goes both ways. There's no high ground on either side, just one doesn't annoy as much.

As someone who doesn't care about either though, The Sjw is much more annoying because it potentially destroys two of my favorite things, gaming and comics. I don't give a shit if some no names trying to build fame via getting attacked get attacked. I don't care if some 10 year old gets attacked for liking Dead or Alive. What I don't like is when "fans" attack developers in droves for not abiding to their own personal ideals.

I don't want every game to be about gay dudes and trannies and the white man is evil. I want games to be made with the same freedom they had before 2012ish.

srug

Agreed. I'm all for making more games/comics with more diversity so that everyone can feel like they have a choice.

Just don't take choices away from the people who helped build the industry in the first place. There IS room for both.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Robin has been featured on some of the most embarrassing covers in history. Which should come natural to a guy who wears panties

Anyone remember when DC let a fan vote decide that Robin would die in one of the most brutal beatings a hero has ever suffered?

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
I can't stand people who think something (especially art, or something similarly subjective) ought to be changed because they don't like it.

Don't like the cover? Cool, don't buy it. I just can't figure out why this culture of whining has become so prevalent.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I don't want every game to be about gay dudes and trannies and the white man is evil. I want games to be made with the same freedom they had before 2012ish.

srug

Originally posted by StyleTime
Well, it's a good way to get your voice heard. I don't see anything expressing discontent if you feel x group is under-represented or presented in a problematic way.

Meh, the problem then is that "freedom" becomes this.

Stuff like that is why we need more character creators in games.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Agreed. I'm all for making more games/comics with more diversity so that everyone can feel like they have a choice.

Just don't take choices away from the people who helped build the industry in the first place. There IS room for both.

If diversity is needed, it should come naturally, not due to shaming the industry.

If a guy wants to make a game about asian gay guys having sex with brown trannies and that becomes the next thing in games then that should without attacking the people who make games. It shouldn't be forced on people.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
👆

If diversity is needed, it should come naturally, not due to shaming the industry.

If a guy wants to make a game about asian gay guys having sex with brown trannies and that becomes the next thing in games then that should without attacking the people who make games. It shouldn't be forced on people.

Especially when a person's natural reaction is to push back against such things.

If you weren't so cheesaphobic, then we'd get along quite fine pr.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Well, it's a good way to get your voice heard. I don't see anything expressing discontent if you feel x group is under-represented or presented in a problematic way.

Meh, the problem then is that "freedom" becomes this.

Golly gee, look! Batman's at the Joker's mercy!

Originally posted by Q99
Well, it is. It may try and present itself as otherwise, but that's what every third-party investigation who tries to look into GG and find out what it's really out finds muck-loads of harassment.

On the other hand I've been threatened by Antis for retweeing stuff and I've seen countless death-threats, flame-posts, etc from the anti side. When the developer Grimachu tried to commit suicide because of his depression Antis were laughing at him the next time and telling him to do it again.

I've been visiting GG several times a week since early September and I've never seen any kind of death threats. I've seen persistent debating and arguing, but mostly I've seen ordinary people argue with sad armchair activists (like yourself).

Whining little SJWs like you is why we have creators shoehorning in shitty minority characters everywhere.

PS, you're not activists or feminists or anything of the like. You're opportunists living soft lives and your crusade is an insult to -real- feminists.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Well, it's a good way to get your voice heard. I don't see anything expressing discontent if you feel x group is under-represented or presented in a problematic way.

Meh, the problem then is that "freedom" becomes this.

Don't come in here with your phucking meme trash with characters from 10 year old games.

And **** those who want to try and portray video-games as some shit medium with only white guys and machineguns.