Lucifer/WF Mxy vs CA Superman/Mandrakk

Originally posted by Galan007
That was Brevoort. He is a well-established idiot/troll amongst the interwebs, and almost certainly has no clue as to what level Hickman(the actual writer of the comic) intended those Beyonders to be operating at.

Basically, until Hickman confirms what was said, I'll take Brev's comment with a grain of salt.

ExNihilo told abyss that the beyonders took a solid form and thus it was more malleable: able to be hammered or pressed into shape without breaking or cracking.

Thats pretty much an explanation for their low showings.

No, it's not.

Beings capable of killing-off every member of the hierarchy in its entirety should simply be >g_infinity the Avengers--solid form or not.

Originally posted by Galan007
No, it's not.

Beings capable of easily killing the hierarchy in its entirety should be >g_infinity the Avengers--solid form or not.

Hey,

How do you see the Cosmic Armor stacking up against the 3 beyonders that killed the LT?

Originally posted by Galan007
No, it's not.

Beings capable of killing-off every member of the hierarchy in its entirety should simply be >g_infinity the Avengers--solid form or not.

Originally posted by Astner

Originally posted by Galan007
That was Brevoort. He is a well-established idiot/troll amongst the interwebs, and almost certainly has no clue as to what level Hickman(the actual writer of the comic) intended those Beyonders to be operating at.

Basically, until Hickman confirms what was said, I'll take Brev's comment with a grain of salt.

Originally posted by Galan007

Originally posted by Galan007
That was Brevoort. He is a well-established idiot/troll amongst the interwebs, and almost certainly has no clue as to what level Hickman(the actual writer of the comic) intended those Beyonders to be operating at.

Basically, until Hickman confirms what was said, I'll take Brev's comment with a grain of salt.

In Other words, It's a case of PIS or Jobber Aura.

It's like I said earlier: we know there are varying 'levels' within the Beyonder race--some of them are FAR more powerful than others(ergo Pym's "child unit" distinction.) We also know the ones who battled the Avengers looked vastly different than the aforementioned three--robotic compared to flesh. Until we know more, I think it's silly to start acting like LT is just some Avengers-level feeb solely because of what we saw in NA #32. srsly

Don't get me wrong, Hickman can certainly be off at times... It's just hard to imagine him(or anyone for that matter) being this off, is all. *Hopefully* more will be revealed in the issues to come, but either way, it's still laughably ridiculous to have the Avengers pose ANY sort of challenge to even the weakest members of the Beyonder race... Let alone have Thor+Hyperion soloing several of them. srslyx2

It's a month before the final issue of New Avengers comes out, right? It's going to be a long wait.

Yeah, the final issue of Avengers and New Avengers should be interesting, to say the very least. At this point it doesn't seem like Hickman can do anything other than try to cram 20 pounds of shit into a 5 pound bag... Quite a few questions left to answer in a scant 2 issues.

I'm still trying to stay optimistic, though. #FingersCrossed

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
But we pretty much know for a fact that both Mandrakk and CA Superman are dwarfed by the Primal Monitor. Then you have presumably the original Dax Novu before he split that should have been above them. And there's absolutely nothing they did or implied that should put them above God. That's 3 beings right there.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Also the writers isn't even a power level. We've seen writers in comics. They're pussies. We've seen a writer get portrayed as God. He's God not a writer. Are they supposed to be greater than Bendis or Morrison? I'm 90 percent sure I would knock both of them out with a jab. Does that make me greater than every comic character or something?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
And the implication that a comic character being above a writer while actively being manipulated by a writer doesn't work either. His story is great, but so is let's say Wolverine. Wolverine's story is greater than 99 percent of the writers too. It's just not a plausible answer.

And it's not like he showed some writer power either. He just fought like Superman.

Off course, Just like you said , Cosmic Armor Superman doesn't have feat to prove it though.He only fought like ordinary Superman. I admit.
But It is in higher concept.

Originally posted by CatL18
Off course, Just like you said , Cosmic Armor Superman doesn't have feat to prove it though.

I still find hard to understand why you say he doesn't have feats: contrariwise, battling and ultimately defeating Dax Novu is quite the highest feat you can find out there, who read the story knows that; being so high as a concept that not even Monitors can understand what you are is also a feat; being able to lift and place back in its original position the Orrery which contains the whole DC 52 Multiverse (and each universe is probably a level of existene with infinite possibilities), while damaged and blind after the fight against Dax Novu, is also quite a physical feat.
Sure, he didn't show any particular ability, like time or space manipulation and such, but does he really need them when:

- He is in a dimension far above space and time, so it really doesn't matter.
- The CA is a pure thought, not something physical, not even pure energy but a thought, which can adapt to the powers of something (Dax Novu) which is so beyond mere things like, for example, common in-universe space and time manipulations, that it's not literally even funny.

Hell, a "normal" Monitor (Rox Ogama) which drank briefly from the "bitter cup of Mandrakk" entered the Multiverse and got rid of freaking Spectre (and I mean an all powerful Spectre who just remade creation erasing the ALE a little time before) like it was a fly; in order to stop him, another Monitor (Nix) had to become the Judge of all Evil and thus the avatar of the good aspect of the Primal Monitor, against Rox that was the avatar of the negative aspect (because the orignal duality which corrupted the page, represented by the CA and Dax Novu was replicated (albeit obviously on a much smaller scale) by all the other Monitors); only a wish of happy ending of the story on a multiversal scale led to the definitive defeat of Rox, because (especially thanks to Nix actions) the circle of Monitors finally realised that their influence on the germs' stories (which is life in the DCU) was far more negative than positive.
That's why the Monitors at the end of the book disappeared like a concept that is being cancelled, leaving full freedom to the germs and fulfilling the warning the CA itself left them after the fight with Dax Novu: "Let them be".

It's clear that Dax Novu is like the primordial sin, just only from the Primal Monitor point of view, while the CA is like a primordial "cure": you don't go any higher than this, unless you are the Primal Monitor itself, of course.
So I think there's much substance here, both conceptual and as a an actual feat, in order to gasp the magnitude of the CA level within DC, it's not like we are talking about Superman Prime One Million who just welcomes you with a pat on your back and nothing more. 😆

Yeah, let's wait. Remember how we all went into meltdown over DCnU Doomsday? Then Superman ripped him in half. And Sun God KOed Hulk, and carver never recovered fully.

To extrapolate anything more at this point, is Golgoesque.

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
being able to lift and place back in its original position the Orrery which contains the whole DC 52 Multiverse (and each universe is probably a level of existene with infinite possibilities), while damaged and blind after the fight against Dax Novu, is also quite a physical feat.

I re-read the story, and now I'm not so sure anymore about this interpretation. stupid
I always thought of the scan where the CA is holding the Orrery as him placing it in its correct position after the fight with Dax Novu (because everything in the Monitors realm went to pieces during the fight), with one Monitor saying "you are damaged beyond repair, yet you still help us", but now I see it's not so clear he is doing this action.
Well, anyway, his face is as big as one of the universes, while in one of the first scans Rox Ogama is rolling himself with joy between the universes, and he is as big as one of them, so there still wouldn't be an issue with the CA being able to move the Orrery.
Ok, this was just a clarification, now I stop talking with myself. 😂

Originally posted by Sj_Sharp
I still find hard to understand why you say he doesn't have feats: contrariwise, battling and ultimately defeating Dax Novu is quite the highest feat you can find out there, who read the story knows that; being so high as a concept that not even Monitors can understand what you are is also a feat; being able to lift and place back in its original position the Orrery which contains the whole DC 52 Multiverse (and each universe is probably a level of existene with infinite possibilities), while damaged and blind after the fight against Dax Novu, is also quite a physical feat.
Sure, he didn't show any particular ability, like time or space manipulation and such, but does he really need them when:

- He is in a dimension far above space and time, so it really doesn't matter.
- The CA is a pure thought, not something physical, not even pure energy but a thought, which can adapt to the powers of something (Dax Novu) which is so beyond mere things like, for example, common in-universe space and time manipulations, that it's not literally even funny.