Freeza with certainty. Anyone much stronger, and it's impossible to say.
Kibito and Kaio Shin never really fight. We know Kaio Shin can kill Freeza in a single attack because we're told so, and have no reason to believe he's lying. And Kibito paralyzed a SSJ2 Gohan long enough for two relatively low powered characters to energy leech him.
Outside of that, there's no telling how strong they are as individuals against anyone at the SSJ+ level, and so no real way of telling how strong their fused selves would be.
Originally posted by cdtm
Piccolo forfeited his fight. Whether it's because his kami half recognized him and refused to fight out of respect (Since a kami technically works for the supreme kai's), or because he knew he couldn't win is anybody's guess.
"Unbelievable power."
"Dimensions apart."
Or something like that 😛 For some reason you count the ability to one-shot Frieza (which we never actually see, it's just stated), but choose not to count Piccolo changing his pants.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
"Unbelievable power.""Dimensions apart."
Or something like that 😛 For some reason you count the ability to one-shot Frieza (which we never actually see, it's just stated), but choose not to count Piccolo changing his pants.
But didn't supreme kai also claim the lower beings had surpassed him?
Forget if it was before or after seeing Gohan go SSJ2. Regardless, we know he's beneath SSJ2, because he claimed as much, and well above Freeza because he also claimed it.
So, I don't know, maybe he's about at full power stage 1 Cell's level? That seemed like it was leagues above supernamek Piccolo.
Originally posted by cdtm
Freeza with certainty. Anyone much stronger, and it's impossible to say.Kibito and Kaio Shin never really fight. We know Kaio Shin can kill Freeza in a single attack because we're told so, and have no reason to believe he's lying. And Kibito paralyzed a SSJ2 Gohan long enough for two relatively low powered characters to energy leech him.
Outside of that, there's no telling how strong they are as individuals against anyone at the SSJ+ level, and so no real way of telling how strong their fused selves would be.
It was Shin that paralyzed SSJ2 Gohan, not Kibito.
Also don't forget, that Supreme Kai held his own against Buu. Better than SSJ2 Gohan did.
Originally posted by cdtm
But didn't supreme kai also claim the lower beings had surpassed him?Forget if it was before or after seeing Gohan go SSJ2. Regardless, we know he's beneath SSJ2, because he claimed as much, and well above Freeza because he also claimed it.
So, I don't know, maybe he's about at full power stage 1 Cell's level? That seemed like it was leagues above supernamek Piccolo.
Yeah, but that was only after he saw Gohan go SSJ2, fight Dabura, after he saw Goku and Vegeta go SSJ2/Majin and fight, and after a bunch of other crap. It's safe to assume, with the way Supreme Kai acted about SSJ2's level of strength, that he could probably fight on par with, a SSJ1. He also managed to hold off fat Buu for a bit, and take a couple of hits without dying.
Kibito was clearly weaker than him, but was still around Gohan's base form, in terms of strength.
In theory, the fusion of the two should have made a warrior even STRONGER than Vegetto was in base form. Still weaker than Super Vegetto though, by a long shot.
However, Kibitoshin was confident that he could have helped against Buu, but Elder Kai said that Buutenks would have sharted on him(not in those words, obviously). I'd say though, that it's safe to pit Kibitoshin at around fat Buu's level, or maybe Mr. Buu. Even if he'd have no chance of beating him in a fight.
IF it wasn't for the fact that Vegeta and Goku got a rival's boost when they fused. Elder Kai said this gave them "another massive boost". Which is why they were so strong in the first place, as Vegetto. So, taking this into account, I'd say it's safe to scale Kibitoshin down to high-SSJ2 tier, like teen Gohan. I wouldn't say Super Perfect Cell level though. So I think it'd be safe to put Kibitoshin at SSJ2 teen gohan tier. Meaning he could probably beat... I dunno, pre-ROSAT SSJ1 Gotenks, at the most. And that's taking a lot of assumption into account, since we don't even know if that Gotenks could have done anything to fat Buu, or not. But I don't think he would have stood a chance, given that even after the ROSAT, he still couldn't even touch Super Buu in SSJ1.
So, in regards to the thread, Kibitoshin could probably beat Perfect Cell, or MAYBE SSJ2 Adult Gohan. At the most. 👆
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
It was Shin that paralyzed SSJ2 Gohan, not Kibito.Also don't forget, that Supreme Kai held his own against Buu. Better than SSJ2 Gohan did.
Yeah, but that was only after he saw Gohan go SSJ2, fight Dabura, after he saw Goku and Vegeta go SSJ2/Majin and fight, and after a bunch of other crap. It's safe to assume, with the way Supreme Kai acted about SSJ2's level of strength, that he could probably fight on par with, a SSJ1. He also managed to hold off fat Buu for a bit, and take a couple of hits without dying.
Kibito was clearly weaker than him, but was still around Gohan's base form, in terms of strength.
In theory, the fusion of the two should have made a warrior even STRONGER than Vegetto was in base form. Still weaker than Super Vegetto though, by a long shot.
However, Kibitoshin was confident that he could have helped against Buu, but Elder Kai said that Buutenks would have sharted on him(not in those words, obviously). I'd say though, that it's safe to pit Kibitoshin at around fat Buu's level, or maybe Mr. Buu. Even if he'd have no chance of beating him in a fight.
IF it wasn't for the fact that Vegeta and Goku got a rival's boost when they fused. Elder Kai said this gave them "another massive boost". Which is why they were so strong in the first place, as Vegetto. So, taking this into account, I'd say it's safe to scale Kibitoshin down to high-SSJ2 tier, like teen Gohan. I wouldn't say Super Perfect Cell level though. So I think it'd be safe to put Kibitoshin at SSJ2 teen gohan tier. Meaning he could probably beat... I dunno, pre-ROSAT SSJ1 Gotenks, at the most. And that's taking a lot of assumption into account, since we don't even know if that Gotenks could have done anything to fat Buu, or not. But I don't think he would have stood a chance, given that even after the ROSAT, he still couldn't even touch Super Buu in SSJ1.
So, in regards to the thread, Kibitoshin could probably beat Perfect Cell, or MAYBE SSJ2 Adult Gohan. At the most. 👆
gohan never went ssj2 against buu
Gohan went SSJ2 when he tried to destroy the egg thing. He was full power before that.
Also Kibito Kai's fusion wasn't as strong
Vegetto's fusion because Supreme Kai was much stronger than Kibito and their personalities didn't compliment each other like Vegetto. Even notice that Kibito Kai is mostly Supreme Kai.
Originally posted by yungz22
there was no electrical aura nor was hid hair as sharpyall forget how long it takes adult gohan to go ssj2 as well
Um, when he's being theatrical, it can take as long as he wants. He went SSJ2 in an instant against the ball of Buu. Just like Goku went from base to SSJ3 in an instant, against Buutenks.
And his hair is always sharp, genius. And there are plenty of times when SSJ2's don't have electrical aura's. That even happened in the Cell saga.
There are plenty of other examples too, genius.
I think YOU forgot that Gohan had SSJ2 in the first place. To assume that he was SSJ1, in a life or death situation when he could have been SSJ2, is completely retarded. 👆
Agreed. 👆
Aside from that, the time it took for Gohan to initially transform into a SSJ2 against Kibito is entirely irrelevant. Remember when Goku first transformed into a SSJ3 against Fat Buu? It took him multiple pages to do so in the manga, and a few minutes in the anime--he even apologized to Buu for the transformation taking so long, ffs... And that was with an undead body, to boot.
But later that very same day(in-universe time) when he briefly went SSJ3 against Buutenks, Goku transformed in the space of a single panel in the manga *clap on*. He also went SSJ3 in the space of a single panel in the manga just before fighting Pure Buu *clap on*. Clearly SSJ3 became much easier for him to attain with each subsequent transformation... And again: that was SSJ3; the most rigorous/taxing transformation shown in the manga by an astronomical margin.
So yeah, clearly we saw the same thing with Gohan/SSJ2--it became much easier for him to transform each time he did so. After all, he's obviously not going to hold back an entire transformation against a Buu-level threat... Especially given that he was MUCH weaker at the beginning of the Buu-saga then he was at the end of the Cell-saga. He was certainly in no position to pull his punches.
Originally posted by Galan007
Agreed. 👆Aside from that, the time it took for Gohan to initially transform into a SSJ2 against Kibito is entirely irrelevant. Remember when Goku first transformed into a SSJ3 against Fat Buu? It took him multiple pages to do so in the manga, and a few minutes in the anime--he even apologized to Buu for the transformation taking so long, ffs... And that was with an undead body, to boot.
But later that very same day(in-universe time) when he briefly went SSJ3 against Buutenks, Goku transformed in the space of a single panel in the manga *clap on*. He also went SSJ3 in the space of a single panel in the manga just before fighting Pure Buu *clap on*. Clearly SSJ3 became much easier for him to attain with each subsequent transformation... And again: that was SSJ3; the most rigorous/taxing transformation shown in the manga by an astronomical margin.
So yeah, clearly we saw the same thing with Gohan/SSJ2--it became much easier for him to transform each time he did so. After all, he's obviously not going to hold back an entire transformation against a Buu-level threat... Especially given that he was MUCH weaker at the beginning of the Buu-saga then he was at the end of the Cell-saga. He was certainly in no position to pull his punches.
👆
Glad someone here, other than me, has a brain.
all that is cool but the fact still remains that he had zero electrical aura and his hair wasnt as sharp..... also goku was alive when he fought buutenks so that may be why it was faster then in addition to the continous amount of training he did in other world after the cell saga could be a factor... gohan is the only character who digressed after the buu saga so it would make sense that he couldbt bring out his body's full potential at that time...... he even said it himself before he shot the kamehameha at the buu egg that he couldnt use full power
Originally posted by yungz22
all that is cool but the fact still remains that he had zero electrical aura and his hair wasnt as sharp..... also goku was alive when he fought buutenks so that may be why it was faster then in addition to the continous amount of training he did in other world after the cell saga could be a factor... gohan is the only character who digressed after the buu saga so it would make sense that he couldbt bring out his body's full potential at that time...... he even said it himself before he shot the kamehameha at the buu egg that he couldnt use full power
1.
There are plenty of other examples too, genius.
2. All that is... cool? I've literally just destroyed your entire argument, by throwing your idiotic assumptions out the window.
3. Are you retarded? Goku was IN the Buu saga when he went SSJ3 the FIRST time, as WELL as the second, third, and fourth times. Meaning that every time was AFTER the timeskip, genius. And Goku being in a living body is what made SSJ3 harder for him in the first place, as per his own statement.
4. Yeah, that would make sense. WHICH IS WHY HE WAS STILL BARELY HALF AS STRONG AS HIMSELF WHEN HE WAS 11. Not to mention that he OBVIOUSLY COULD go SSJ2, as he even SAID he did so against Kibito. ❌
5. No, he didn't say that, you liar. 👇
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
1.There are plenty of other examples too, genius.
2. All that is... cool? I've literally just destroyed your entire argument, by throwing your idiotic assumptions out the window.
3. Are you retarded? Goku was IN the Buu saga when he went SSJ3 the FIRST time, as WELL as the second, third, and fourth times. Meaning that every time was AFTER the timeskip, genius. And Goku being in a living body is what made SSJ3 harder for him in the first place, as per his own statement.
4. Yeah, that would make sense. WHICH IS WHY HE WAS STILL BARELY HALF AS STRONG AS HIMSELF WHEN HE WAS 11. Not to mention that he OBVIOUSLY COULD go SSJ2, as he even SAID he did so against Kibito. ❌
5. No, he didn't say that, you liar. 👇
where did i say goku didnt go ssj 3 in the buu saga?
Originally posted by yungz22
where did i say goku didnt go ssj 3 in the buu saga?
Where did I say that you said that?
You implied that Goku's training after the Cell saga made him able to use SSJ3 better than he did against Buu. EVEN THOUGH HE NEVER USED SSJ3 UNTIL AFTER THE TRAINING.
"also goku was alive when he fought buutenks so that may be why it was faster then in addition to the continous amount of training he did in other world after the cell saga could be a factor"
smfh ❌