DC Captain Marvel Vs Orion

Originally posted by abhilegend
Cap has used lightning amped punches several times in preboot canon. Also he has never got the better of Adam and neither is Adam stronger or more durable than him.

Cap/Adam are absolutely equal in every aspect to the point they can turn each other in human by tricking them into the path of lightning of other. The sheer notion of Adam being stronger than Cap is absurd.

When has Cap used such punches OTHER than the series I mentioned?

If Cap has never gotten the Better of BA then why did BA fail to take the power of the ROE earlier and raise his love from the dead?? In a straight up fight no Cap has never beaten Billy, but he has out lasted him to be the victor.

So if Cap and BA are equal in every respect answer me these.

1. Why is BA not lowered in power the same way Cap is when others of the marvel family power up??

2. Why is that Cap was asked by Wally if he has a connection to the speed force when BA has been clearly show bellow such speeds.

3. Why has BA been able to do physical damage to Billy but the reverse has never occurred (remember Shazam the New begining issue 4 page 10).

4.There's also the time BA "knocked teh wind out of Cap, because billy "forgot how strong he was". How would he forget if they were true "equals in every respect"

5. Why did Superman state when he fought BA that he hits stronger than Cap.

7. Why was BA able to defeat Freddy WITH all the power of the Wizard as "lord Marvel ( a power up)

7. Why has BA shown the ability to resist TP ( MMH in WWIII, Brainwave in Black Reign) with ease while Billy has succumb ( also in black Reign Brainwave made Billy traqnsform)

I'd go on a few more but that's enough.

Cap get's powers from

Solomon - wisdom
Hercules - Strength
Archiles - invulnerability
Zues - power
Atlas - stamina / self sustenence
Mercury - speed

BA gets powers from

Shu - Invulnerability
Heru - speed/flight
Amon - strength
Aton - enhances physical abilities and invulnerability
Mehen - inner strength

Simple fact is Aton enhances his physical abilities. The difference isn't much but it is there, slight edges this way and that in powers. Slight differences.

In a power set discussion yes; in a matter of feats, no.

i'm not gonna talk about dcnu where i've seen both but neither enough to really want to discuss them. in pre-nu, they were absolutely equal in all ways. cm does power share though so at times comes across weaker. when he is at full power they are certainly equal, and i might even say cm is the better of the 2. ba is more vicious though. cm has hurt ba to many times to bother discussing so i'll assume that was dcnu related. an obvious use of charged punches comes from his ko'ing of superman, but there are others but i'd need to look to find them. and he can use his lightning at a distance as well, but it wouldn't matter as orion would close h2h and then get blasted, regardless.

i don't know who wins how many in dcnu, but in pre-nu i'd still take cm for a very small majority.

oh, and on at least one occasion, he has used the power of zeus to augment his other stats....always made me wonder why he didn't do it more often.

Originally posted by leonidas
i'm not gonna talk about dcnu where i've seen both but neither enough to really want to discuss them. in pre-nu, they were absolutely equal in all ways. cm does power share though so at times comes across weaker. when he is at full power they are certainly equal, and i might even say cm is the better of the 2. ba is more vicious though. cm has hurt ba to many times to bother discussing so i'll assume that was dcnu related. an obvious use of charged punches comes from his ko'ing of superman, but there are others but i'd need to look to find them. and he can use his lightning at a distance as well, but it wouldn't matter as orion would close h2h and then get blasted, regardless.

i don't know who wins how many in dcnu, but in pre-nu i'd still take cm for a very small majority.

oh, and on at least one occasion, he has used the power of zeus to augment his other stats....always made me wonder why he didn't do it more often.

I've not read any DCNU of either so I'm not discussing that. I do however have a very good collection of all the pre 52 post COIE appearances of both (not really missing much).

Each of the instances I've mentioned there were when he wasn't power sharing. At least in relation to the comparisons of BA and Cap. the reference I made to one of cap's "victories" was definitely a power sharing one. That was from POS where Cap and BA start fighting over a farm. Cap wishes he could make Mary and Freddy depower but can't. BA Broke Cap's arm (or dislocated his shoulder, it was in a sling for the rest of the arc). Despite being at 1/3 power Cap had the endurance and self sustenance to keep going with the injury and eventually stop BA from his aim.

So as an example Cap and SUpes Fight was when only Cap was powered and an entity made Superman see Cyborg Supes and Cap saw BA. So Cap wasn't holding back when HE punched Superman yet Supes clearly thinks

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111130955/3539752-1323881-ba_survives_supes_punch.jpg

That BA hit's harder than Cap. Cap was all out because he believed he was fighting BA, so it wasn't for that reason. This is but one of the examples mentioned.

still not buying it. cap and superman have shared powers and superman was practically in awe of cap's power. he's even stated that cap has the edge on him because of magic. if you want to suggest ba>cm, i'll just have to disagree. there have been times where it may seem that way because of the way ba fights, but i don't see him being more powerful. rather it's just billy's nature to hold back most of the time while ba almost never does. i'm afraid that a single instance where supes says otherwise isn't going to convince me--especially when he is famous for saying stuff like that all the time.

Someone needs to gather all the Super compliments. He's good at those.
But yeah, the way BA fights does make it come across as him being more powerful sometimes.

Has Billy ever went up against someone on Darkseid's level?

No but he has went against Superman for us to know where he stands.

Originally posted by beatboks
When has Cap used such punches OTHER than the series I mentioned?

Cap get's powers from

Solomon - wisdom
Hercules - Strength
Archiles - invulnerability
Zues - power
Atlas - stamina / self sustenence
Mercury - speed

BA gets powers from

Shu - Invulnerability
Heru - speed/flight
Amon - strength
Aton - enhances physical abilities and invulnerability
Mehen - inner strength

Simple fact is Aton enhances his physical abilities. The difference isn't much but it is there, slight edges this way and that in powers. Slight differences.

Originally posted by carver9
No but he has went against Superman for us to know where he stands.

I'd say killing Darkseid or ripping out his heart is above anything Billy has done.

billy faces different style guys--he's doesn't fight the cosmic types supes does, but that doesn't mean he couldn't do as well, or nearly as well. cm is NOT superman, but i do believe he is as close in dc as anyone is. he also fights uber magical beings that would give supes fits. the sins come to mind. i mean seriously, he MAY have the very worst rogue's gallery in comics. sivana has been updated recently and turned into a true beast, but many of his other enemies are just....ridiculous. he has answered the bell against beings like satanus and blaze though.

Originally posted by leonidas
billy faces different style guys--he's doesn't fight the cosmic types supes does, but that doesn't mean he couldn't do as well, or nearly as well. cm is NOT superman, but i do believe he is as close in dc as anyone is. he also fights uber magical beings that would give supes fits. the sins come to mind. i mean seriously, he MAY have the very worst rogue's gallery in comics. sivana has been updated recently and turned into a true beast, but many of his other enemies are just....ridiculous. he has answered the bell against beings like satanus and blaze though.

Orion and Superman are about even. Metron has stated as much. And their fights are generally about even.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Orion and Superman are about even. Metron has stated as much. And their fights are generally about even.

And Supes himself has said him and Billy are equals.

He didn't want to make Billy cry. 😛

Lol...ok.

Originally posted by leonidas
still not buying it. cap and superman have shared powers and superman was practically in awe of cap's power. he's even stated that cap has the edge on him because of magic. if you want to suggest ba>cm, i'll just have to disagree. there have been times where it may seem that way because of the way ba fights, but i don't see him being more powerful. rather it's just billy's nature to hold back most of the time while ba almost never does. i'm afraid that a single instance where supes says otherwise isn't going to convince me--especially when he is famous for saying stuff like that all the time.

I'm not staring that BA > Cap. Overall they are equal, just not power for power. BA has a strength edge which continuity supports. Cap a speed edge. Cap has wisdom where BA is more like knowledge (particularly in things like magic that Billy hasn't shown). On the whole they are definitely equals just not power for power.

i think that series was the best portrayal of interaction between them that dc ever put out tbh.

It was pretty good, yeah 👆

Because at that time Cap had power of the wizard and was much more powerful than usual. I would love to see Cap out lasting Adam. Go ahead.

I'll look into your issues, I've not seen it. It's interesting that when evidence is offered to show something with you it's always "that writer was wrong".

He other dozens of examples I could have used were also across "years of continuity" since the last retcon of both. Pre "Shazam a new Beginning" there were never variations or deviations between the two.

Beatcox you keep using "Billy" instead of "Adam" and it's giving me half a tumor.