~50% for both? Has homosexuality been proven MORE genetically based than alcoholism?

Originally posted by dadudemon

Thank you for citing some of your points.

But what I take away from this is gay women are okay but gay men aren't?

The page I linked to actually had several studies, not just one. What I presented for you earlier were successful actual suicides. It is merely the most extreme indicator of depression. It is hardly the only one. If you'd read a little further, for instance, you'd have found the following ...

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In contrast to the data on death by suicide, a relationship between sexual orientation and nonfatal suicidal behavior has been observed worldwide (Mathy, 2002a) ...

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662085/#R73

Having said that, however, yes, overall, there DO seem to be at least SOME gender differences among the groups. Indeed, it's easy to see where that comic, in reporting true facts, got his statistics of "6 times more likely", etcetera from:

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Since the early 1990s, population-based surveys of U.S. adolescents that have included questions about sexual orientation have consistently found rates of reported suicide attempts to be two to seven times higher in high school students who identify as LGB, compared to those who describe themselves as heterosexual (DuRant, Krowchuk, & Sinal, 1998; Falkner & Cranston, 1998; Garofalo, Wolf, Kessel, et al., 1998; Garofalo, Wolf, Winssow, et al., 1999; Remafedi, 2002; Russell & Joyner, 2001).

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662085/#R73

Also:

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Using another population-based approach, a longitudinal study of a large New Zealand birth cohort found that at age 21, those who identified as LGB were six times more likely than those who identified as heterosexual to report one or more lifetime suicide attempts (Fergusson, Horwood, & Beautrais, 1999). When interviewed again at age 25, LGB individuals in this cohort reported a significantly higher rate of suicide attempts since age 21 than did heterosexual respondents (Fergusson, Horwood, Ridder, & Beautrais, 2005).
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662085/#R73

Finally:

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Many of the studies that have investigated suicide attempts in LGB groups have also measured suicidal ideation, with combined results showing LGB respondents to be twice as likely as comparable heterosexual respondents to report suicidal ideation (King et al., 2008). Several studies have reported that the gender pattern for suicidal ideation is opposite that for suicide attempts, with risk of suicidal ideation higher among lesbian/bisexual women and risk of suicide attempts higher among gay/bisexual men. One large-scale U.S. survey (Gilman et al., 2001) found a three times higher rate of reported suicidal ideation in lesbian/bisexual women compared to heterosexual women, but no higher rate in gay/bisexual compared to heterosexual men. Thus, reported suicidal ideation does not appear to be a stable predictor of LGB suicidal behavior.

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662085/#R73

http://gawker.com/ambitiously-homophobic-nebraska-woman-sues-every-gay-on-1702486002

Lol

Originally posted by Lestov16
http://gawker.com/ambitiously-homophobic-nebraska-woman-sues-every-gay-on-1702486002

Lol

She's clearly doing God's work.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Thank you for citing some of your points.

But what I take away from this is gay women are okay but gay men aren't?

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In contrast to the data on death by suicide, a relationship between sexual orientation and nonfatal suicidal behavior has been observed worldwide ...

a longitudinal study of a large New Zealand birth cohort found that at age 21, those who identified as LGB were six times more likely than those who identified as heterosexual to report one or more lifetime suicide attempts ...

Many of the studies that have investigated suicide attempts in LGB groups have also measured suicidal ideation, with combined results showing LGB respondents to be twice as likely as comparable heterosexual respondents to report suicidal ideation ...

... One large-scale U.S. survey found a three times higher rate of reported suicidal ideation in lesbian/bisexual women compared to heterosexual women ...

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662085/#R73

Originally posted by dadudemon

But what I take away from this is gay women are okay but gay men aren't?

Clearly wasn't biased, not at all.

Originally posted by Robtard
Clearly wasn't biased, not at all.

😕

"Biased"?

Where exactly would this bias have a chance to show itself?

They were tallying the suicide deaths of different groups.
Do you think they made up the numbers?

It's fairly well established that there IS a difference among genders in terms of "successful" suicides, and the following suggests a fairly well accepted reason why:

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Women who commit suicide use less violent methods, such as drugs and carbon monoxide poisoning, than do men, who more often use violent methods such as guns and hanging. Theories that attempt to explain this finding focus on gender differences in suicidal intent, socialization, emotions, interpersonal relationships, orientation and access to methods, and neurobiological factors. Data from a psychological autopsy study were used to test the theory that women who commit suicide use less violent means because they are less intent on dying. Although women were significantly less likely to use a violent method than men, there was no difference in the lethality of their suicidal intent.
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PMID: 11079640 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11079640

I have one question. I thought that Sexuality began in the mind?

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I've wondered this with all the legislation being passed, vetoed, and/or discussed in the past few months.

One considered socially unacceptable.
One increasingly considered in the opposite fashion.

Both once labelled as diseases affecting loved ones or people we know.

Both sanctioned to various degrees by law and religion.
Both associated with increased risk of depression.

Both once considered matters of choice entirely.
Both now considered to have a genetic aspect separate from what many of us might consider "true" choice.

Most interestingly, though, the degree to which genetics seems to play a role in either case seems to be right around 50%.

Is such really the case?
If so, why?
Why do the numbers appear so similar to one another?
Why is one considered a matter of choice any more or less than the other?
What accounts for the differing perceptions?

Refer to the bolded and underlined sections for the 10 second summary.

Discuss.

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Twin studies of homosexuality have shown that identical twins are about twice as likely to both be gay compared to fraternal twins. This means that being gay is partly genetic and not simply something that a person learns or chooses to be.

There is one important thing to note, though. [b]If the DNA sequence is the only thing determining whether someone is gay or not, we would expect that if one identical twin were gay, then the other would be too 100% of the time.

But this is not what scientists have found – the rate is actually closer to 50%. So while we know that genetics is involved, it doesn’t tell us the whole story. This is where environment comes in ...
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http://genetics.thetech.org/ask-a-geneticist/homosexuality

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GENETICS OF ALCOHOL USE DISORDER

How do genes influence alcoholism?

Alcoholism often seems to run in families, and we may hear about scientific studies of an “alcoholism gene.” Genetics certainly influence our likelihood of developing alcoholism, but the story isn’t so simple.

Research shows that genes are responsible for about half of the risk for alcoholism. Therefore, genes alone do not determine whether someone will become an alcoholic. Environmental factors, as well as gene and environment interactions account for the remainder of the risk.*

Multiple genes play a role in a person’s risk for developing alcoholism. There are genes that increase a person’s risk, as well as those that may decrease that risk, directly or indirectly. For instance, some people of Asian descent carry a gene variant that alters their rate of alcohol metabolism, causing them to have symptoms like flushing, nausea, and rapid heartbeat when they drink. Many people who experience these effects avoid alcohol, which helps protect them from developing alcoholism.**

As we have learned more about the role genes play in our health, researchers have discovered that different factors can alter the expression of our genes. This field is called epigenetics. Scientists are learning more and more about how epigenetics can affect our risk for developing alcoholism.
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http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-consumption/alcohol-use-disorders/genetics-alcohol-use-disorders

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Twin Studies and Adoption Studies: Is Alcoholism Inherited

“Relatives of alcoholics have higher rates of the disease than do relatives of non-alcoholics. But is this nature or nurture? Perhaps some of each, but let’s look at the evidence for heredity.

“Twin studies offer a chance to compare the influence of genetics versus environment. Identical twins (one-egg twins) share exactly the same set of genes while fraternal twins (two-egg twins), like ordinary siblings, share only one-half their genes. A higher rate of concordance (similarity) between identical twins compared with fraternal twins would argue for heredity. In other words, how often are both twins affected together rather than only one. The evidence favors heredity with figures like 60% (identical) versus 39% (fraternal) in one Scandinavian study.

“Even more interesting are the results from adoption studies. When adopted in infancy and studied into adulthood, sons of alcoholics were 4 times as likely to be alcoholic as were sons of non-alcoholics. And this risk was not affected by the alcoholism status of the adopted parent!

“Certainly heredity cannot account for all causation in alcoholism but in that manner it is much like diabetes or heart disease that also have an inherited component.”

From ASK DR. BOB, published by NCADD and written by Robert M. Morse, MD, former Director of Addictive Disorders Services at the Mayo Clinic, NCADD Board Member and member of NCADD’s Medical/Scientific Committee.
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https://ncadd.org/for-parents-overview/family-history-and-genetics/226-family-history-and-genetics [/B]

You see here's the thing. Fetuses have been monitored, and it was shown that they masturbate before ever being born. Yes they touch themselves. Sexuality originates from the brain.

There is quite a lot of informative material on this page that I'm posting. The reason that I posted it was because there is a movie on the page that shows some pretty compelling evidence in favor of the researchers working on the project. http://discovermagazine.com/2009/oct/10-where-does-sex-live-in-brain-from-top-to-bottom

Originally posted by Stoic
You see here's the thing. Fetuses have been monitored, and it was shown that they masturbate before ever being born. Yes they touch themselves. Sexuality originates from the brain.

There is quite a lot of informative material on this page that I'm posting. The reason that I posted it was because there is a movie on the page that shows some pretty compelling evidence in favor of the researchers working on the project. http://discovermagazine.com/2009/oct/10-where-does-sex-live-in-brain-from-top-to-bottom

Luttle perverts with their perfect fine tuned motor skills of the arms and hands, always thinking about the snatch they're about to come out of

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I can only assume you're trying to use the tactic of "poisoning the well" with this last submission. But the quality of one video has little if anything to do with the quality of this more recently submitted video of yours.

Trying to say it does would be like rating the song "More than Words" by Extreme on, say, the title of the album it appeared in. Or the Sophie B. Hawkins lullaby "As I Lay Me Down", a loving homage to her father, on the basis of the OTHER song she was once famous for.

Won't work.
Those were real stats the comic used in the FIRST video you presented, and they deserve to be given serious discussion.

but i don't dismiss any of the points he made in the first video... there could be a correlation between homosexuality and some other mental illness... that doesn't indicate causation, btw... that's just a basic concept in science: you need more than just an apparent correlation to establish that one is derived from the other. but even if it is a causal relationship...

the last video i posted wasn't an attempt to poison the well.. actually it was just an attempt to share a funny video. but clearly you aren't interested in videos that don't disparage the particular group you are looking to disparage... though i would argue the 2nd video also touched on some points that had a fair amount of truth to them, even if they were presented in a bigoted/offensive/funny way

edit...

YouTube video

Originally posted by red g jacks

the last video i posted wasn't an attempt to poison the well.. actually it was just an attempt to share a funny video.

If that's all it was, I appreciate the attempt.

It might be worthwhile to tell you that, while one of them earned, and still earns, the right to be called "remarkable" by me, I did not find EITHER video particularly funny.

Neither made me laugh, and neither seem particularly humorous to me.

Truthfully, I'd be interested in knowing what percentage of people actually DO find the material and delivery of those 2 clips "funny". I don't imagine it's a particularly high percentage. Certainly most in the audience in the first clip didn't get the joke.

Nevertheless, thank you once again for the attempt.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
…Why do the numbers appear so similar to one another?

But I am glad to see that you admit that homosexuality is rooted in genetics and not a choice.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison

[The numbers are] not similar. There [are] far more alcoholics in the world then homosexuals.

~50% in either case.

And with alcoholics the percentage seems to be slightly higher.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison

I am glad to see that you admit that homosexuality is rooted in genetics and not a choice.

I don't see the two concepts as mutually exclusive.

Alcoholism is apparently rooted in genetics, after all. In fact, some studies suggest alcoholism has a stronger claim to genetic heritage than homosexuality does.

Yet Alcoholism is regarded as a choice.

Originally posted by Spawningpool
Is this really where our tax dollars are going?

Governments study just about everything.
Matthew Lesko made a fortune off this realization.

http://borngay.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000019

http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-consumption/alcohol-use-disorders/genetics-alcohol-use-disorders

Alcoholism is often cited as a "disease" or "medical condition", seems to imply that the choice is not really a choice, at least in terms of desire to drink and not the actual imbibing.

You're welcome.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
~50% in either case…

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
[B.]…Yet Alcoholism is regarded as a choice. [/B]

Originally posted by Shakyamunison

So, what you are saying is that Alcoholics choose to be Alcoholics?

Alcoholics have a choice as to whether or not they drink, and, if they unwisely choose TO drink, are held fully responsible for anything that might result from their actions.

Will the fact that alcoholism seems to have a strong genetic component be enough to get an alcoholic off if he or she, say, has too much to drink and then tries to drive home and gets into a car crash?

Regardless of how much more difficult it may be for the alcoholic to refuse to drink, regardless of the level of his or her desire, he or she is still held fully responsible.

Ultimately, with the proof being that the drinker is held responsible in the event of complications, both the law and the public at large consider the action of drinking a conscious choice, not a genetic mandate that must be followed.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Alcoholics have a choice as to whether or not they drink, and, if they unwisely choose TO drink, are held fully responsible for anything that might result from their actions.

Originally posted by Astner
Are you implying that homosexuals don't have a choice in who they f*ck?

Except that he took care to differentiate between "desire" and "action", that would actually be what people like Robtard are implying, not me.

My point is nearly exactly the opposite.

Because sexual desire likely isn't a choice, action is. eg a gay woman being attracted to other females isn't a choice she can turn on and off, the action of having sex is sometime she can control.

Your notion that sexual attraction is something you control like a light-switch is silly and why people laugh at you 👆

Did you consciously choose to be straight (if you are)?