Shaak Ti vs. Jaden Korr vs Kas'im

You really don't need to cherry pick though. In the game, Galen just blatantly beats her, despite Shaak having help from the Sarlaac tentacles and native Felucians. In the book (which is what people use to claim Shaak's dueling superiority), she ends the fight by throwing herself on his blade in a desperate attempt to get through his defenses, and while he only survived because of his Force usage, had he not used the force that still would've been a stalemate, not a victory for Shaak. In the comic, which is what people use to wank Shaak's Force abilities, Galen seriously wounds her with an omnidirectional telekinetic attack he used while weakened.

Lmao. Everything you just said is plain retarded.

I'd more question the logical coherence of the people who argue Shaak Ti matches or surpasses Galen in every field and is overall better than him, and that Shaak Ti is some great cunning tactical genius... yet Shaak Ti somehow lost to this inferior opponent despite being so cunning, intimately familiar with her environment, and having aid from the native life, in a fight that either ended with Galen just flat out beating her, her throwing herself on Galen's blade despite being supposedly significantly better than him as a duelist, or getting seriously wounded by an omnidirectional Force attack from a weakened Galen despite being supposedly capable of matching him as a Force wielder.

Either Shaak Ti is the shittiest tactician in the history of Star Wars, or she's just not a better combatant than Felucia Galen.

👆

Shaak vs Galen wouldn't have ended in a stalemate if Galen hadn't used the Force. The novel makes it plainly clear that Shaak gets stabbed after she fails to skewer Galen Marek's head. If she had decapitated him, he wouldn't have outstretched his hand via reflex and stabbed her.
Throughout the rest of the fight, she had him in desperate retreat, with Marek at best fighting evenly and at worst being driven back considerably.

So Galen's victory was ultimately through the Force with a move he himself deemed as lucky.

Kas'im or Jaden 🙂

Originally posted by MythLord
Shaak vs Galen wouldn't have ended in a stalemate if Galen hadn't used the Force. The novel makes it plainly clear that Shaak gets stabbed after she fails to skewer Galen Marek's head. If she had decapitated him, he wouldn't have outstretched his hand via reflex and stabbed her.
Throughout the rest of the fight, she had him in desperate retreat, with Marek at best fighting evenly and at worst being driven back considerably.

So Galen's victory was ultimately through the Force with a move he himself deemed as lucky.

"The third would have skewered his right eye had he not held her back at the last minute with a desperate telekinetic block that stopped her lightsaber barely a millimeter from his skin. He could feel his eyelashes and eyebrows burning. The right side of his sight was entirely blue.

She gasped and staggered backward. Her lightsaber and her gaze dropped. A full half meter of red blade emerged from her stomach, then the rest came free with a hiss.

He backed away, shocked by how close he had come to death and how lucky he had been to defeat her. He had raised his lightsaber by reflex. She had, in the desperation of her final assault, practically thrown herself on the blade. Perhaps she had meant for the two of them to defeat each other at the same time."

1. Galen would not have wondered if she intended a mutual destruction outcome if he had not raised his blade prior to telekinetically blocking Shaak's strike at his face, and if his blade wouldn't have pierced her if her attack succeeded.

2. Shaak Ti threw herself at Galen in the desperation of her final assault and ended up pretty much completely impaled on his blade to the extent that even after staggering backwards, half of the blade's length was still in her body. Galen's Telekinetic block would not have increased Shaak Ti's forward momentum in that assault, and if anything would've actually reduced it. And the notion that Shaak was standing well over a meter away from Galen when she tried to impale his face, then after failing to impale his face threw herself a meter forwards without attempting another attack is rather absurd.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I'd more question the logical coherence of the people who argue Shaak Ti matches or surpasses Galen in every field and is overall better than him, and that Shaak Ti is some great cunning tactical genius... yet Shaak Ti somehow lost to this inferior opponent despite being so cunning, intimately familiar with her environment, and having aid from the native life, in a fight that either ended with Galen just flat out beating her, her throwing herself on Galen's blade despite being supposedly significantly better than him as a duelist, or getting seriously wounded by an omnidirectional Force attack from a weakened Galen despite being supposedly capable of matching him as a Force wielder.

Either Shaak Ti is the shittiest tactician in the history of Star Wars, or she's just not a better combatant than Felucia Galen.

Or you are f-ucking retarded. There's this thing called PIS, idk if you heared of it. Inferior fighters constantly win, stalemate, or survive fights they have no business to. Get with the program. Now let's go through your retarded analysis of the 3 depiction of the fight.

1. The game

Considering it's 100% gameplay, 0 cutscenes I don't know where the f-uck you get that Galen blatantly beats her. Maybe if you are playing on easy mode, because your mental capacity clearly can't carry you through harder difficulties, I guess you could think Galen dominated her. The point is there's no f-ucking evidence for it in the game.

2. The novel

So Shaak overextended, what of it? Dooku overextended against Vos too, despite being an almost perfect duelist and a clear superior to Vos. Shaak too was still clearly superior to Galen to the point that he acknowledges that he's lucky to be alive.

3. The comic

I kinda find it funny how you can so rigorously go through the context of the novel fight to shit on Shaak and then blatantly ignore the context of the comic to yet again shit on Shaak.

Yes Shaak was injured by an omnidirectional push from Galen, but the context doesn't end there. How about the fact that Shaak thought the fight was over and lowered her defenses? No I guess that didn't occure to you.

And your ridiculous claim that Galen was weakend? I just love how you try to have your cake and eat it too. In the comic Felucia was described as a DARK SIDE NEXUS. The way I don't bring the novels description of Felucia into the novel, how about you don't f-ucking bring the novel's into the comic? Thank you.

And overall throughout all 3 sources you try to imply that Shaak solely benefit from the aid of the Saarlac and the Felucians yet forget how it would tax her reserves to constantly use beast controll / battle meditation on them.

Lastly, I for one never claimed Shaak is superior to Galen in every way. There's no proof that she's more powerful for example. But clearly she's close enough to contend.

Zoltan's salt is so phucking tangible right now.

Oh dear God, not this sh!t again...

Galen raised his blade by reflex, which impaled her. But he did so as she was attacking, so obviously she didn't just think of jumping right onto Marek's blade nor did she intend mutual defeat. That's just Marek's speculation, from which you conveniently omitted the part he muses that it was pure luck that he had managed to do even that.

Galen's Telekinetic block would not have increased Shaak Ti's forward momentum in that assault, and if anything would've actually reduced it.

It wouldn't really reduce it since he only kept her lightsaber blade at bay. Her body would still be flinging forwards. Regardless, I didn't bring momentum in the equation here.

And the notion that Shaak was standing well over a meter away from Galen when she tried to impale his face, then after failing to impale his face threw herself a meter forwards without attempting another attack is rather absurd.

Staggering back can also mean being taken a back, or shocked by something which I'd imagine happened in this case since she just realized she had been stabbed.

Besides, that isn't the point I'm making. If Galen had been decapitated, raising his blade reflexively to stab Shaak couldn't have happened. He would've been decapitated if he hadn't got a lucky Force Push in.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
Kas'im or Jaden 🙂

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Zoltan's salt is so phucking tangible right now.

Yes. Cherry picking quotes, disregarding context, flat out lies, and on top of it all acting like he's actually the reasonable here tends to do that.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
You really don't need to cherry pick though. In the game, Galen just blatantly beats her, despite Shaak having help from the Sarlaac tentacles and native Felucians.

Blatantly? That's a lie, they're rather even in the game, each gaining ground and loosing it, until he electrocutes the Sarlacc into killing Shaak Ti. That is not a display of superiority in force or sabers, but a distinctly opposite ideology in their usage of the environment.

In the book (which is what people use to claim Shaak's dueling superiority), she ends the fight by throwing herself on his blade in a desperate attempt to get through his defenses, and while he only survived because of his Force usage, had he not used the force that still would've been a stalemate, not a victory for Shaak.

Incorrect again. She would stab him in the eye, he would stab her in the stomach. Given she is on friendly territory, can enter healing trances, and has survived direct shots to the stomach (where she was stabbed) in the past, her wound was evidently one she could survive. Let me know if Galen's ever survived being stabbed through the brain, though.

In the comic, which is what people use to wank Shaak's Force abilities, Galen seriously wounds her with an omnidirectional telekinetic attack he used while weakened.

> says is using the comic
> says weakened
> comic references Dark Side's strength on Felucia.

10/10, failed to mention she wasn't facing him and was only hit due to underestimating his rage.

I get it honey, you're trying all over again to argue that Kas'im wouldn't get slaughtered by an entirely superior Jedi. No need to take it out on Zoltan just because no one agrees with your an heroic logic 🙂

Originally posted by MythLord
Shaak vs Galen wouldn't have ended in a stalemate if Galen hadn't used the Force. The novel makes it plainly clear that Shaak gets stabbed after she fails to skewer Galen Marek's head. If she had decapitated him, he wouldn't have outstretched his hand via reflex and stabbed her.
Throughout the rest of the fight, she had him in desperate retreat, with Marek at best fighting evenly and at worst being driven back considerably.

So Galen's victory was ultimately through the Force with a move he himself deemed as lucky.

So first off we have the fight starting off with Shaak in a superior position having a height advantage over Galen which allows her to generate a greater amount of kinetic force behind her blows then normal putting Galen off balance at the beginning of the fight.

"She smiled in mockery. "Are you prepared to meet your fate?" Then her lightsaber was lit and she was spinning through the air toward him, striking downward as she fell.

The apprentice simultaneously backflipped and blocked her opening blow. The force of it surprised him, and the recoil threw him backward. His hood caught on one of the sarlacc's teeth, and he tore it impatiently away before the snag could interfere with his defense. Shaak Ti's lightsaber was a jagged blue blur between them. He blocked her as best he could until he had his balance again." - The Force Unleashed.

He attempts to put distance between himself and Shaak but because he does not the place their fighting in like Shaak does he ends up plunging down into the maw of the sarlaac yet again allowing Shaak to gain the high ground.

"Then he jumped. Over her he spun and fell down two layers of teeth toward the mouth of the sarlacc. From there he jumped up again, angling away from her to avoid giving the Jedi the advantage of height, but she was there ahead of him, driving him back down with a series of blows so rapid he barely caught them all." - The Force Unleashed.

Note that at this time he's trying to get back to the edge of the sarlaac pit and out of its maw so meeting the strikes of a person with a high ground advantage as he's ascending is going to be especially hard to counter.

_____

Using a bolt of Sith lightning on the sarlaac Galen is able to regain even ground with Shaak.

"He summoned a bolt of Sith lightning and sent it down, into the flesh of the sarlacc. The beast roared and shook, giving him the opening he needed. Shaak Ti's right foot slipped, forcing her to flip elegantly out of reach of his blade. He leapt after her, swinging as he came." - The Force Unleashed.

As you can probably imagine the fight progresses much more evenly now that Shaak's advantages have been used up.

"The fight progressed around the sarlacc's center rings, blow and counterblow accompanied by the roaring of the beast. The apprentice cut off teeth and threw the fragments at his adversary's head. In return she took tighter control of the beast's distributed intelligence and sent its food-seeking tentacles flailing for him. He repulsed them and fought on.

Down they drove each other, closer and closer to the very lip of the creature's enormous mouth.

They then have an exchange which reveals why Shaak attempted her suicidal move. She knew she was running out of energy faster then Galen.

"You can't keep this up forever," he taunted Shaak Ti as they dueled.

"Neither can you," she said. "You are wasting your strength too quickly."

"The dark side is inexhaustible."

"Your strength is prodigious," she admitted, "but that is your doing." - The Force Unleashed.

Galen then proceeds to remove one of Shaak's lekku indicating the shift in the fight.

"He slashed at her own feet as they spun by overhead and sent one of her ribbons twirling down into the sarlacc's gaping mouth. "Spare me the philosophy lesson, Jedi," he snarled. "I'm only here for your blood." - The Force Unleashed.

This is when Shaak attempts to take Galen down with her in moves that find their mark but ultimately fail. And luck isn't a thing. If Galen hadn't had the honed reflexes he did all the luck in the world wouldn't have saved him. I'm not claiming he blocked the blow out of skill as that was clearly not the case but to claim that Galen only managed to do so because of convenience is lazy and biased.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Or you are f-ucking retarded. There's this thing called PIS, idk if you heared of it. Inferior fighters constantly beat, stalemate, or survive fights they have no business to. Get with the program. Now let's go through your retarded analysis of the 3 depiction of the fight.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
1. The game

Considering it's 100% gameplay, 0 cutscenes I don't know where the f-uck you get that Galen blatantly beats her. Maybe if you are playing on easy mode, because your mental capacity clearly can't carry you through harder difficulties, I guess you could think Galen dominated her. The point is there's no f-ucking evidence for it in the game.

I was referring to the quicktime event where he blatantly drives her back in lightsaber combat and dominates her with the Force.

But if you don't count the quicktime events and only the cutscenes fair enough, however the fight still ends with Galen walking towards a Shaak Ti lying on the ground who then an heroed, so even without the gameplay or quicktime events it's pretty clear Shaak Ti ended that fight in a disadvantageous position and wasn't confident in her ability to best Galen.

But even if we were to disregard that instance there's still two more to pull from.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
2. The novel

So Shaak overextended, what of it? Dooku overextended against Vos too, despite being an almost perfect duelist and a clear superior to Voc. Shaak too was still clearly superior to Galen to the point that he acknowledges that he's lucky to be alive.

He acknowledges he's lucky to be alive, but at the same time he acknowledges that if her attack had succeeded in skewering his face, she would've still died. And it's also stated that Shaak Ti's final attack against Galen was desperate. I'm not saying that Galen is a superior duelist than Shaak, but the notion that she's a significantly better duelist than Galen is rather laughable.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
3. The comic

I kinda find it funny how you can so rigorously go through the context of the novel fight to shit on Shaak and then blatantly ignore the context of the comic to yet again shit on Shaak.

Yes Shaak was injured by an omnidirectional push from Galen, but the context doesn't end there. How about the fact that Shaak thought the fight was over and lowered her defenses? No I guess that didn't occure to you.

Unless you want to argue that when Shaak Ti senses something going on in a fight before it happens and actively extends her hands towards her opponent she isn't making use of her force defenses.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
And your ridiculous claim that Galen was weakend? I just love how you try to have your cake and eat it too. In the comic Felucia was described as a DARK SIDE NEXUS. The way I don't bring the novels description of Felucia into the novel, how about you don't f-ucking bring the novel's into the comic? Thank you.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
And overall throughout all 3 sources you try to imply that Shaak solely benefit from the aid of the Saarlac and the Felucians yet forget how it would tax her reserves to constantly use beast controll / battle meditation on them.

And getting the native Felucians to fight alongside her absolutely is an advantage no matter what way you try to slice it.

So your arguments consist of pointing out that the game is sketchy, when what is in the cutscene still supports that Shaak was outmatched by Galen, and when no part of the game supports your position. That Shaak Ti throwing herself mostly onto someone else's blade is the same as merely overextending and leaving an opening, which is a pretty ridiculous comparison to make. And arguing Shaak Ti wasn't defending herself against an attack she was aware of in advance and was actively outstretching her hands towards and that Galen wasn't weakened when unleashing that attack despite the fact that he was being strangled when he did so.

I don't think I'm being f-ucking retarded here tbh.

Originally posted by MythLord
Oh dear God, not this sh!t again...

Galen raised his blade by reflex, which impaled her. But he did so as she was attacking, so obviously she didn't just think of jumping right onto Marek's blade nor did she intend mutual defeat. That's just Marek's speculation, from which you conveniently omitted the part he muses that it was pure luck that he had managed to do even that.

The mere fact that Galen was wondering if she had attempted a mutual destruction outcome is evidence that his blade was in place before he blocked Shaak's strike at his head, otherwise he wouldn't have considered that notion to begin with.

And while there is evidence suggesting Galen's blade was raised beforehand and that Shaak would've been impaled regardless of the success of her attack, there is no evidence suggesting that Galen's blade was raised after he blocked her attack.

The notion that Shaak Ti would've impaled herself regardless is reinforced by the text, Galen actually being in the fight, and being aware of the order in which he took certain actions.

The notion that Galen's wrong is based around no evidence other than your perspective of the fight that has no evidence to support it other than you wanting it to be so, and relies on the assumption that Galen's a complete retard.

What is it you have said so frequently on these forums? Occam's Razor? I hope you stick to that even when it's inconvenient for you tbh.

Originally posted by MythLord
It wouldn't really reduce it since he only kept her lightsaber blade at bay. Her body would still be flinging forwards. Regardless, I didn't bring momentum in the equation here.

Originally posted by MythLord
Staggering back can also mean being taken a back, or shocked by something which I'd imagine happened in this case since she just realized she had been stabbed.

With that definition, if it was being applied, the text would've said "Shaak was staggered" or "it staggered her." Using that definition of staggered with the phrasing "She gasped and staggered backward" is the grammatical equivalent of "She gasped and shocked backward" or "She gasped and astonished backward" which is pretty grammatically retarded.

Between the sentence being in the context of her physical actions (with her gasping first), the use of the shocked definition of staggered being completely grammatically stupid in the way the word was used, and the word "backward" providing a direction for her motion, it's pretty obvious staggered was referring to a physical action in that sentence.

Originally posted by MythLord
Besides, that isn't the point I'm making. If Galen had been decapitated, raising his blade reflexively to stab Shaak couldn't have happened. He would've been decapitated if he hadn't got a lucky Force Push in.

Originally posted by Selenial
Blatantly? That's a lie, they're rather even in the game, each gaining ground and loosing it, until he electrocutes the Sarlacc into killing Shaak Ti. That is not a display of superiority in force or sabers, but a distinctly opposite ideology in their usage of the environment.

In that quicktime, the only time Shaak gets any advantage is when she compels the Sarlaac to attack him, and in every instance where they directly engage each other or Galen wields his force power against her he has the advantage.

This is not me lying, it is a blatant observation of what happened in the quick time. He was driving her back in lightsaber combat, he telekinetically hurled her, he physically overpowered her when she leaped at him with a lot of built up momentum, he electrocuted her, and she only was on even or superior footing when the Sarlaac was attacking him.

Originally posted by Selenial
Incorrect again. She would stab him in the eye, he would stab her in the stomach. Given she is on friendly territory, can enter healing trances, and has survived direct shots to the stomach (where she was stabbed) in the past, her wound was evidently one she could survive. Let me know if Galen's ever survived being stabbed through the brain, though.

If everything would've worked out perfectly for her, Galen would be dead and she would be seriously injured. If anything went wrong with that attack, then Shaak would either be dead alongside Galen, or injured and outmatched against a still standing Galen.

The fact of the matter is Shaak Ti throwing herself on a lightsaber blade is without any shadow of a doubt an extremely risky gamble, and one she lost, and if Galen wasn't closer to Shaak as a duelist than you'd like him to be, she would've never resorted to such a risky tactic.

Originally posted by Selenial
> says is using the comic
> says weakened
> comic references Dark Side's strength on Felucia.

Originally posted by Selenial
10/10, failed to mention she wasn't facing him and was only hit due to underestimating his rage.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Or you are f-ucking retarded. There's this thing called PIS, idk if you heared of it. Inferior fighters constantly win, stalemate, or survive fights they have no business to. Get with the program. Now let's go through your retarded analysis of the 3 depiction of the fight.

1. The game

Considering it's 100% gameplay, 0 cutscenes I don't know where the f-uck you get that Galen blatantly beats her. Maybe if you are playing on easy mode, because your mental capacity clearly can't carry you through harder difficulties, I guess you could think Galen dominated her. The point is there's no f-ucking evidence for it in the game.

2. The novel

So Shaak overextended, what of it? Dooku overextended against Vos too, despite being an almost perfect duelist and a clear superior to Vos. Shaak too was still clearly superior to Galen to the point that he acknowledges that he's lucky to be alive.

3. The comic

I kinda find it funny how you can so rigorously go through the context of the novel fight to shit on Shaak and then blatantly ignore the context of the comic to yet again shit on Shaak.

Yes Shaak was injured by an omnidirectional push from Galen, but the context doesn't end there. How about the fact that Shaak thought the fight was over and lowered her defenses? No I guess that didn't occure to you.

And your ridiculous claim that Galen was weakend? I just love how you try to have your cake and eat it too. In the comic Felucia was described as a DARK SIDE NEXUS. The way I don't bring the novels description of Felucia into the novel, how about you don't f-ucking bring the novel's into the comic? Thank you.

And overall throughout all 3 sources you try to imply that Shaak solely benefit from the aid of the Saarlac and the Felucians yet forget how it would tax her reserves to constantly use beast controll / battle meditation on them.

Lastly, I for one never claimed Shaak is superior to Galen in every way. There's no proof that she's more powerful for example. But clearly she's close enough to contend.

You've called just about everybody who's disagreed with you for the last week retarded. Are you running out of reaction images and witty retorts?

Both the Wii and Xbox/PC version end with Galen being required to electrocute the sarlaac and Shaak Ti who is on the Sarlaac until she falls to the ground in a heap.

Shaak didn't overextend. She attempted a suicidal move that ultimately failed. And there's legitimately no such thing as luck. It's a term we use to describe fortuitous events that were unprovoked but that in no way befits Galen's force enhanced reflexes being capable of reacting to Shaak's blows and preventing a fatal wound.

What evidence is there for Shaak lowering her defenses against an opponent who still possessed enough power at that point in the fight to blow up a mega sarlaac? Something she would have certainly been able to sense. Shaak is praised as one of the most tactically minded duelists in the Jedi Order. The action you're suggesting she took is highly illogical when taking that into account. Guess that didn't occur to you?

The comic states that the Darkside was strong on Felucia. Nowhere does the novel contradict that. It simply adds that its power has been diminished by Shaak's actions in tilting the balance in favor of the Light. In fact the novel goes further elaborating that Felucia experiences the normal shifts between the light and the dark ( the comic notes that Felucia had been sliding to the dark at the time when Galen fought Shaak ) but that Shaak had interrupted that natural flow. That's an amazingly impressive feat for Shaak but it doesn't change the fact of the world's alignment at the time.

She was certainly gaining more from their intervention then she was losing considering she was utilizing them in the the first place.

Ninjaed..?

Originally posted by Selenial
I get it honey, you're trying all over again to argue that Kas'im wouldn't get slaughtered by an entirely superior Jedi. No need to take it out on Zoltan just because no one agrees with your an heroic logic 🙂

You lost the debate against that "an heroic logic." 👆