Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Yes. Cherry picking quotes, disregarding context, flat out lies, and on top of it all acting like he's actually the reasonable here tends to do that.
Zoltan. I think you're really salty with yourself and after years of trolling you just can't tell the difference anymore. 🙂
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I was referring to the quicktime event where he blatantly drives her back in lightsaber combat and dominates her with the Force.But if you don't count the quicktime events and only the cutscenes fair enough, however the fight still ends with Galen walking towards a Shaak Ti lying on the ground who then an heroed, so even without the gameplay or quicktime events it's pretty clear Shaak Ti ended that fight in a disadvantageous position and wasn't confident in her ability to best Galen.
But even if we were to disregard that instance there's still two more to pull from.
I dunno man, in QTEs Galen ragdolled Vader and Sidious. They might not be accurate, but what do I know...
And yes Shaak was beaten in a cutscene. Obviously duh, since she died and Galen not. The point is you have no ****ing idea what went down in the game. Shaak could've been better but still end up losing, it could've been close or a stomp. Or pretty much anything. It doesn't support my stance any more than yours.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Dooku leaving an opening that Vos uses to disarm him is him overextending, Shaak Ti throwing herself into someone's blade is not simply overextending, it is a significantly more egregious error than that.
There's nothing simple about it lmao. She didn't literally jump on the blade, it was a reflex move from Galen in result of her overextending.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
He acknowledges he's lucky to be alive, but at the same time he acknowledges that if her attack had succeeded in skewering his face, she would've still died. And it's also stated that Shaak Ti's final attack against Galen was desperate. I'm not saying that Galen is a superior duelist than Shaak, but the notion that she's a significantly better duelist than Galen is rather laughable.
Who said she's significantly better? Anyhow how the duel ended doesn't change the fact that Shaak was comfortably ahead of Galen in that duel.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
She sensed some shit happening before Galen unleashed the repulse, she was facing the attack with her hands outstretched towards it, and she was not completely flung away by it, so clearly she sensed it coming, and was defending herself against it.Unless you want to argue that when Shaak Ti senses something going on in a fight before it happens and actively extends her hands towards her opponent she isn't making use of her force defenses.
Lmao another blatant lie. She "sensed it" oh sooo in advance that the repulse interrupted her in mid sentence? And having her arm extended and defending herself? She just tried to shield her face and was failing. The attack was already through before she could mount a defense. It's pretty obvious she was caughed offguard.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I wasn't referring to any nexus shit Zoltan. I was referring to the fact that he unleashed that attack while he was being strangled by Sarlaac tentacles and that Shaak sensed his strength fading. I'd consider being strangled to the point where your opponent senses your life fading out as being a pretty significant hindrance.
Fair enough, but that still leaves the dark side nexus which amps Galen and weakens Shaak.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
If Shaak Ti's use of the Saarlac was more disadvantageous to her than advantageous, then surely with her great cunning and tactical sensibilities she wouldn't have used it. Clearly though it was an advantage, otherwise she wouldn't have used it.And getting the native Felucians to fight alongside her absolutely is an advantage no matter what way you try to slice it.
I didn't say they were a hindernce. Reading issues? I said you omitted the detail that it's not only pros about having them with her, but cons as well. Just your usual strategy in debating Shaak. Let's list everything advantageous to Shaak while keeping silent about the disadvantages.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
So your arguments consist of pointing out that the game is sketchy, when what is in the cutscene still supports that Shaak was outmatched by Galen, and when no part of the game supports your position. That Shaak Ti throwing herself mostly onto someone else's blade is the same as merely overextending and leaving an opening, which is a pretty ridiculous comparison to make. And arguing Shaak Ti wasn't defending herself against an attack she was aware of in advance and was actively outstretching her hands towards and that Galen wasn't weakened when unleashing that attack despite the fact that he was being strangled when he did so.I don't think I'm being f-ucking retarded here tbh.
With more lies, comprehension issues, and irrelevant arguments I think you are tho 🙂
Originally posted by UCanShootMyNova
Perhaps that's why you're a veritable sewer belching out cancerous arguments and after that stale memes when your already pitiful ability to debate fails you.2 mutch algohol bad 4 brain.
That coming from a guy whom everyone thinks is a shit tier debater is pretty rich.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I was referring to the quicktime events in which Galen drives her back in lightsaber combat, telekinetically hurls her into the Sarlaac. Then Shaak attacks him with the Sarlaac and he escapes the Sarlaac. Then she leaps at him, and despite having a lot of momentum built up, him blocking her attack knocks her backwards through the air, then he electrocutes her, hurls her into the Sarlaac's tentacles, then unleashing a Force storm on the Sarlaac that clearly hits her too considering she limply dropped from the Sarlaac instead of leaping off of it or making any attempt to stick a landing.In that quicktime, the only time Shaak gets any advantage is when she compels the Sarlaac to attack him, and in every instance where they directly engage each other or Galen wields his force power against her he has the advantage.
This is not me lying, it is a blatant observation of what happened in the quick time. He was driving her back in lightsaber combat, he telekinetically hurled her, he physically overpowered her when she leaped at him with a lot of built up momentum, he electrocuted her, and she only was on even or superior footing when the Sarlaac was attacking him.
And that quicktime event is not the only scripted part of the fight. They literally introduced the Force Lock mechanic during her fight, another quick time event that shows two force users locked in a distinctly close battle of tutaminis.
You're also acting as if a sequence of events that results in death is the same thing as showing complete superiority. Yes, he drew on his strength and pushed her back in a blade lock, so what? That happens in almost every fight ever, Ventress has pushed Anakin back in blade-locks several times. Yes, he landed a force push on her, tied perfectly into his style in a niman motion. Barriss Offee has done the same sequence to Anakin Skywalker. The only difference was Galen's resulted in a kill; because he had the advantage of abusing a Sarlacc. She obviously wasn't close to death or obviously beaten before that, because she could have left the fight then and there, but was fast enough to position herself on the beast, and strong enough to dominate it's mind in a space of time lasting half a second at best.
If Galen lifted his blade up as she was throwing herself on it, it would've cut through more vital organs and potentially her heart. If Galen threw his head back or to the side or dodged her attack and her attack failed, she would've been seriously wounded against Galen and lost. If Galen blocked her attack with the Force (which he did) she would've been seriously injured and outmatched in such a state (which she was).If everything would've worked out perfectly for her, Galen would be dead and she would be seriously injured. If anything went wrong with that attack, then Shaak would either be dead alongside Galen, or injured and outmatched against a still standing Galen.
The fact of the matter is Shaak Ti throwing herself on a lightsaber blade is without any shadow of a doubt an extremely risky gamble, and one she lost, and if Galen wasn't closer to Shaak as a duelist than you'd like him to be, she would've never resorted to such a risky tactic.
You're arbitrarily assigning Galen to be in a position to actually do any of those things. It's clear in the novel that he wasn't, he was so overwhelmed by her assault that he barely even understood what happened. In the heat of the moment, any competent Jedi would have seen that, so no, Galen suddenly being in a position to actually kill her, or move his head despite not seeing the attack coming isn't actually a viable alternative. And she would have known that.
Obviously her assault was a risky gamble, and I never claim that she's infinitely superior to him. He's a Soresu wielder with a strong defense, and I've always held the position that he did not increase astronomically over the course of the latter stages of the novel, I don't know why you're suddenly suggesting I like to argue Shaak as being leagues above him.
What did Dooku do, when presented with an inferior, but obviously skilled duelist in Kenobi? Often he resorted to the force. As literally no council member bar Yoda could rag-doll Marek, what do you expect Shaak Ti to do, if not perform a risky manoeuvre?
Ataru is literally built as a sequence of risky manoeuvre's, leaving yourself hopelessly susceptible to counterattacks, but hoping your ferocity and unpredictability are enough to hold your opponent off.
Her form backfired due to his prowess as a Force User. Another day and she might have won, but that just wouldn't be good storytelling now would it.
I'm referring to him being weakened by the fact that he was being strangled by a ****ing tentacle monster when he unleashed that attack and that Shaak could sense his strength fading.She sensed something and turned to face him before he unleashed his attack, and had her arms outstretched towards him when he did so.
[/B]
Ah, yes, if only Sith had this raw emotion they used to fuel their power. Some sort of emotion that would only become much stronger as their life began to fade and they realised they might actually die....
mmm
If only such an emotion existed, he might not have been 'weakened' by the Sarlacc's attack 🙂
Turned, couldn't even finish the word that came out of her mouth, and had her arms tucked up to her face. Yeh, that really shows full preparation, you're right 🙄
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Marek wouldn't be speculating that if he had raised his lightsaber after blocking Shaak's head strike. I'm pretty sure Galen, who unlike you actually has experience in lightsaber combat and was actually in that duel, isn't retarded enough to think that if he raised his lightsaber after blocking Shaak's strike she still would've died.The mere fact that Galen was wondering if she had attempted a mutual destruction outcome is evidence that his blade was in place before he blocked Shaak's strike at his head, otherwise he wouldn't have considered that notion to begin with.
And while there is evidence suggesting Galen's blade was raised beforehand and that Shaak would've been impaled regardless of the success of her attack, there is no evidence suggesting that Galen's blade was raised after he blocked her attack.
The notion that Shaak Ti would've impaled herself regardless is reinforced by the text, Galen actually being in the fight, and being aware of the order in which he took certain actions.
The notion that Galen's wrong is based around no evidence other than your perspective of the fight that has no evidence to support it other than you wanting it to be so, and relies on the assumption that Galen's a complete retard.
What is it you have said so frequently on these forums? Occam's Razor? I hope you stick to that even when it's inconvenient for you tbh.
I don't need Occams Razor when I have the text to support my idea. First of all, Galen did raise his lightsaber by reflex, why would he do that if he wasn't attacked?
"He backed away, shocked by how close he had come to death and how lucky he had been to defeat her. He had raised his lightsaber by reflex."
Second of all, the text notes "practically" threw herself, as in it's almost as if she did such an action, though that was never her intention:
"She had, in the desperation of her final assault, practically thrown herself on the blade. Perhaps she had meant for the two of them to defeat each other at the same time.
Galen's musings could also be interpreted as him assuming Shaak knew she would need to overextend. Conversely, there is no evidence that Galen simply held his lightsaber out before Ti even made an attack that would leave her vulnerable as would be absolutely retarded.
So this interpretation that she legitimately threw herself onto a lightsaber blade that was already raised as answer to an attack that wasn't even executed yet makes no sense whatsoever.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Well clearly Galen's telekinetic block didn't draw her further in is the point I'm making.
That's all fine and dandy, but I never brought it up.
Fair enough on the staggering thing, though.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
And your suggestion that he raised his blade after that block has no evidence substantiating it, and the evidence we do have points in completely the opposite direction.
He would've raised it as she attacked, not before her attack. In which case she couldn't stop herself and her only hope was decapitating him first which she would have done had Galen not used the Force.
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
I dunno man, in QTEs Galen ragdolled Vader and Sidious. They might not be accurate, but what do I know...And yes Shaak was beaten in a cutscene. Obviously duh, since she died and Galen not. The point is you have no ****ing idea what went down in the game. Shaak could've been better but still end up losing, it could've been close or a stomp. Or pretty much anything. It doesn't support my stance any more than yours.
And with Sidious, Galen pretty much blatantly said Sidious was deceiving him by feigning weakness in that same source.
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
There's nothing simple about it lmao. She didn't literally jump on the blade, it was a reflex move from Galen in result of her overextending.
The move was such an error Galen thought it was possible she did it intentionally. That is not as simple as Dooku moving his blade too far that Vos was able to disarm him, considering she clearly left herself much more open than Dooku did.
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Who said she's significantly better? Anyhow how the duel ended doesn't change the fact that Shaak was comfortably ahead of Galen in that duel.
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Lmao another blatant lie. She "sensed it" oh sooo in advance that the repulse interrupted her in mid sentence? And having her arm extended and defending herself? She just tried to shield her face and was failing. The attack was already through before she could mount a defense. It's pretty obvious she was caughed offguard.
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Fair enough, but that still leaves the dark side nexus which amps Galen and weakens Shaak.
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
I didn't say they were a hindernce. Reading issues? I said you omitted the detail that it's not only pros about having them with her, but cons as well. Just your usual strategy in debating Shaak. Let's list everything advantageous to Shaak while keeping silent about the disadvantages.
Originally posted by Selenial
And that quicktime event is not the only scripted part of the fight. They literally introduced the Force Lock mechanic during her fight, another quick time event that shows two force users locked in a distinctly close battle of tutaminis.
Originally posted by Selenial
You're also acting as if a sequence of events that results in death is the same thing as showing complete superiority. Yes, he drew on his strength and pushed her back in a blade lock, so what? That happens in almost every fight ever, Ventress has pushed Anakin back in blade-locks several times. Yes, he landed a force push on her, tied perfectly into his style in a niman motion. Barriss Offee has done the same sequence to Anakin Skywalker. The only difference was Galen's resulted in a kill; because he had the advantage of abusing a Sarlacc. She obviously wasn't close to death or obviously beaten before that, because she could have left the fight then and there, but was fast enough to position herself on the beast, and strong enough to dominate it's mind in a space of time lasting half a second at best.
Originally posted by Selenial
You're arbitrarily assigning Galen to be in a position to actually do any of those things. It's clear in the novel that he wasn't, he was so overwhelmed by her assault that he barely even understood what happened. In the heat of the moment, any competent Jedi would have seen that, so no, Galen suddenly being in a position to actually kill her, or move his head despite not seeing the attack coming isn't actually a viable alternative. And she would have known that.
Galen was clearly capable of reacting to it because he did. If he reacted differently than with TK, he might have gone for a physical evasion, or desperately pulled his blade upwards to try and block it, the latter of which would've lead to his blade cutting through Shaak's vital organs. You cannot say it was perfectly reasonable for Shaak to move into Galen's blade and not think she was to some extent risking defeat or mutual destruction.
Originally posted by Selenial
Obviously her assault was a risky gamble, and I never claim that she's infinitely superior to him. He's a Soresu wielder with a strong defense, and I've always held the position that he did not increase astronomically over the course of the latter stages of the novel, I don't know why you're suddenly suggesting I like to argue Shaak as being leagues above him.
And I disagree with you on Galen not improving a lot after the Shaak Ti fight, given the quote saying his skill increased, the quote saying his physicality increased a lot, and the numerous quotes speaking to his growth in the Force throughout the remainder of the novel.
On the timeline, Galen is closer to his fight with Rahm than his fight with Vader, and I'm sure you can admit that there is a rather massive difference between the two.
Originally posted by Selenial
What did Dooku do, when presented with an inferior, but obviously skilled duelist in Kenobi? Often he resorted to the force. As literally no council member bar Yoda could rag-doll Marek, what do you expect Shaak Ti to do, if not perform a risky manoeuvre?
Originally posted by Selenial
Ataru is literally built as a sequence of risky manoeuvre's, leaving yourself hopelessly susceptible to counterattacks, but hoping your ferocity and unpredictability are enough to hold your opponent off.
Originally posted by Selenial
Her form backfired due to his prowess as a Force User. Another day and she might have won, but that just wouldn't be good storytelling now would it.
Originally posted by Selenial
Ah, yes, if only Sith had this raw emotion they used to fuel their power. Some sort of emotion that would only become much stronger as their life began to fade and they realised they might actually die....mmm
If only such an emotion existed, he might not have been 'weakened' by the Sarlacc's attack 🙂
Originally posted by Selenial
Turned, couldn't even finish the word that came out of her mouth, and had her arms tucked up to her face. Yeh, that really shows full preparation, you're right 🙄
She was in a fight, she felt that something was happening, and had enough time to physically turn around and raise her arms, and you're telling me that despite that she was incapable of raising a Force barrier, and that somehow without having raised Force defenses the attack didn't hurl her off of her feet? That doesn't make much sense to me Sel.