Originally posted by AncientPower
So it comes down to the combined Force potential of trillions of non-Force sensitives vs the power of millions of actual average Force-users.
Actually that's like millions of non-Force sensitives per average Force user, in which case I'd take the former.
Given that Tenebrae as of Ziost had just absorbed the power of millions of Sith
Source?
1.Midichlorian counts would likely massively disagree with that. The midichlorians per cell of a human being is ~2,500(per Death Star). Given how Killiks as a species were non-Force sensitive then the midichlorian count must've been even less than that.
The midichlorian count of a 'pure Force being' is 15,000(per Darth Tenebrous). To me it's obvious that in terms of midichlorian counts the difference in number is not simply a math equation. On the other hand it is obvious that Anakin Skywalker(20,000+) is not just less than ten times more powerful in the Force than Captain Panaka. The 18,000+ difference likely indicates that this is off the charts in its measurement. Given the Voss and Gormak as a species are naturally strong in the Force in the way Sith Purebloods and Miralukas are, I'd imagine the difference between one of them and a Killik is massive.
Then consider that Sel-Makor isn't just feeding on the Voss and Gormak of any given time, but instead all of them across thousands of years; with all the negative emotions and death fueled by constant war as an added bonus, then I would hand it to the one who is about to consume a planet, followed by a solar system.
2.Ziost and Dromund Kaas are the Empire's two great population centers:
Situated in the heart of Imperial Space, Ziost has long played a vital role in the intricate history of the Sith. For thousands of years, in fact, the craggy, arid world served as the ancient Sith Empire's capital until infighting splintered its leadership. Today, Ziost remains an important commercial, political and population center of the Empire--this in spite of its shift from a warm climate with dense forests to a bitterly cold tundra. Whether this environmental turnabout is due to geological reasons or eons of dark side influence remains a subject of scholarly consideration.
- Ziost Codex Entry
We know that there are millions of powerful Sith in the Empire:
After Lord Scourge shed the mantle of the Wrath under mysterious circumstances, the Emperor's Hand set out to find a replacement. Millions of the galaxy's most powerful Sith were considered, but ultimately only one would prove worthy to serve the Emperor.
―Star Wars: The Old Republic Encyclopedia
Given that the wording of this statement doesn't seem to state that these millions are all of the Empire's most powerful Sith, then consider that there would be many more Sith that are lesser than them. Being conservative and saying that there are five less powerful Sith for every one of the millions of the 'most powerful' Sith, then we can safely assume the Empire has tens of millions of proper Sith.
Given Ziost is the second most important planet in the Empire, with a population center to match. Then we can safely say that, like Kaas City which even as of the early centuries of the Sith Empire had millions of inhabitants:
Kaas City was founded by the first Sith to arrive on Dromund Kaas, who saw the gorges and ravines of the jungle world as the perfect place to build their eternal sanctuary. Over the following centuries, its population grew into the millions–proud Imperials working toward the glory of the Sith and slaves submitting to Imperial will.
- Kaas City Codex Entry
Kaas city is obviously not all of Dromund Kaas, and they would've grown as a population massively following those centuries. Ziost must have had tens of millions of inhabitants as the 'gateway to the Sith Empire' with a fraction of that being proper Sith.
Originally posted by AncientPower
1.Midichlorian counts would likely massively disagree with that. The midichlorians per cell of a human being is ~2,500(per Death Star). Given how Killiks as a species were non-Force sensitive then the midichlorian count must've been even less than that.The midichlorian count of a 'pure Force being' is 15,000(per Darth Tenebrous). To me it's obvious that in terms of midichlorian counts the difference in number is not simply a math equation. On the other hand it is obvious that Anakin Skywalker(20,000+) is not just less than ten times more powerful in the Force than Captain Panaka. The 18,000+ difference likely indicates that this is off the charts in its measurement. Given the Voss and Gormak as a species are naturally strong in the Force in the way Sith Purebloods and Miralukas are, I'd imagine the difference between one of them and a Killik is massive.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you started typing your reply intending to use midichlorian counts, realized midway through that it actually supports my case, and then just scrapped it...bringing you back to ground zero.
By the very comparison you initially used, several million non-Force users to every average Force user = advantage non-Force user. Litmus test: would you be more impressed if someone TP'd a million people at once, or a single average Force user? Yeah.
Then consider that Sel-Makor isn't just feeding on the Voss and Gormak of any given time, but instead all of them across thousands of years; with all the negative emotions and death fueled by constant war as an added bonus, then I would hand it to the one who is about to consume a planet, followed by a solar system.
There's no reason to think that all of that goes into making him continuously stronger. A lot of that probably just contributed to his continuing existence (e.g. Palpatine and Byss).
2.Ziost and Dromund Kaas are the Empire's two great population centers:We know that there are millions of powerful Sith in the Empire:
Given that the wording of this statement doesn't seem to state that these millions are all of the Empire's most powerful Sith, then consider that there would be many more Sith that are lesser than them. Being conservative and saying that there are five less powerful Sith for every one of the millions of the 'most powerful' Sith, then we can safely assume the Empire has tens of millions of proper Sith.
Given Ziost is the second most important planet in the Empire, with a population center to match. Then we can safely say that, like Kaas City which even as of the early centuries of the Sith Empire had millions of inhabitants:
Kaas city is obviously not all of Dromund Kaas, and they would've grown as a population massively following those centuries. Ziost must have had tens of millions of inhabitants as the 'gateway to the Sith Empire' with a fraction of that being proper Sith.
How does that support your point at all? Say there were tens of millions of sith, and Ziost was a large population center - none of these add up to Ziost containing millions of sith as you have no idea what fraction of the total empire Ziost makes up or how the Empire's Sith are distributed (a lot are probably in combat or military bases). That is, unless if you're just referring to members of the Sith species, in which case who cares?
We don't only know UnuThul is powerful because of the trillions of killiks, we also know that he literally can bend turbolaser barrages capable of swallowing frigates, and Luke doesn't just beat him - as soon as he gets serious, he no-sells his TK and then ragdolls him. In that very scene, he's described as rooting himself in the heart of the Force to the point where nothing, not even the black hole at the center of the galaxy, could move him. And frankly if you look at the language carefully (see my other thread) it doesn't seem very figurative. That's definitely a contender for the most impressive feat in all of Star Wars (and it's not even Luke's prime).
A little off topic, but how do you people not have sources for the shit you say like immediately as you say it? How do you debate Star Wars for however many years and fail to gather a source for these claims when people question them? Star Wars as a whole doesn't have that much going on (in comparison to some other universes) besides apparently guidebooks you found in dark places, let alone specific parts of Star Wars that are miniscule in comparison?
Then you have Wookiepedia that basically guides you to an area of where you need to look.
Some of the shit I've seen in my short while here is absolutely perplexing to me. There is a lot of claims that go unproven. Whether the proof exists or not... who knows?
It's whatever I guess, but it's a little bit old seeing it.
Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Does the op mean if Luke can tank/survive the Ziost Dark Side blast?
Darth Krayt was able to breach defenses of both Luke Skywalker and Abeloth with his Force Drain power, and his expression is standard - nothing extraordinary.
The Dark Side Blast on Ziost is the epitome of Force Drain powers in intensity and potency - similar to Nathema. The initial wave was intense enough to disintegrate any living being (no matter how strong), collapse structures (this is not TK) and vaporize oceans. It left behind an environment of major tremors, geographical fissures and a void in the Force - similar to Nathema.
The initial wave is most likely to kill Luke, and the resultant void would make it impossible for him to call upon his powers to heal and survive anyway (he will be done and dusted - solidly). SWTOR went to great lengths to emphasize that Jedi and Sith stood no chance at stopping such an expression of power and the only way out was to abandon the planet itself.
There are certain expressions of power which cannot be defended against. Force Storm and Nathema-esque Dark Side Blast are two notable examples.
Originally posted by One Big Mob
A little off topic, but how do you people not have sources for the shit you say like immediately as you say it? How do you debate Star Wars for however many years and fail to gather a source for these claims when people question them? Star Wars as a whole doesn't have that much going on (in comparison to some other universes) besides apparently guidebooks you found in dark places, let alone specific parts of Star Wars that are miniscule in comparison?
Then you have Wookiepedia that basically guides you to an area of where you need to look.Some of the shit I've seen in my short while here is absolutely perplexing to me. There is a lot of claims that go unproven. Whether the proof exists or not... who knows?
It's whatever I guess, but it's a little bit old seeing it.
This isn't a CAV, proof is not necessary unless it's asked for.