Originally posted by NewGuy01
Darksight>Battle Precognition by a mile. That said, it doesn't necessarily mean Cronal will win.
This. It's surprisingly well matched tbh, well done
Revan's a better tactician, Cronal has better precognition by far. Revan's assassins would be huge, Cronal's imperial intelligence arguably even better.
Not sure. Probably Revan, barely.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
This isn't Galactic Empire vs Revan's Empire; otherwise Revan would get stomped. The OP makes it sound like they have the exact same resources, and this is a battle of pure tactics and precog.
I was under the impression Revan could create an Assassin sect again, and Cronal could reform intelligence. Theoretically they'd have the resources and ability to do so, why wouldn't they?
Originally posted by WildBantha88
Where everything he said already happened. If a character is thinking to themselves about the past, how then does that make it false? If the Emperor had seen through Cronals deceit then Cronal would have been dead already.
Originally posted by WildBantha88
Only a few days after the Battle of Yavin, Cronal had cast his mind deep into the void, seeking the future of the young Rebel pilot who had destroyed the Death Star, and he found him as an older, more seasoned man, dressed in dark robes¨Dand bearing a lightsaber.My fate...will be the same as my father's
Which was when Conal finally understood who Darth Vader was, and saw the terrible flaw that would bring the Order of the Sith to its ultimate destruction. A destruction that Cronal not only was determined to survive, but was certain he could transform into an eternal victory for the Dark.
- Shadow of Mindor
Cronal sees an alternant future where Luke who is "Older" and "More seasoned" and is evidently Sidious's apprentice.
Now I know what your going to say "That future didn't happen so itz bullshit!" but Darksight lets him see ALL possible futures. This is Cronal seeing a possible future several years in advance.
Let's assume Cronal foresees a future in where he somehow beats Revan, and then he plots the necessary stuff in order to make it happen. That's ignoring that Revan would have foreseen the entire war itself (if we really want to start using the type of quotes you are), not just a mere future, and with that knowledge can make adjustments to ensure his victory or prevent a defeat. While this power is not obviously omniscient, it served Revan perfectly during the Mandalorian Wars. He was capable of manipulating the entire faction of the Jedi Order under his command, 1/3rd of the entire Republic military, and the Mandalorian armies by drawing them into battlefields he specifically planned to fight on (ex: Dxun and Malachor).
Originally posted by WildBantha88
Way to ignore the sentence exactly before that quote LOLBut the upstart in question had received Klick's fighter wing with welcome instead of combat... and greeted him with an array of authentic command codes, even Palpatine's own secret codes that had been buried in the deep core programming Klick had received in the cr¨¨che on Kamino.
- Shadow of Mindor
Originally posted by WildBantha88
Incorrect. Palpatine planned that if he ever were to die he would bring himself back from chaos. And Cronal possessed Palpatines own secret codes that no one else in the galaxy knew.
Originally posted by WildBantha88
The part where he was 3 steps ahead of several of that era's best tacticians, destroyed a large Republic fleet including one of the biggest and most advanced ships ever built, and would have gotten away scott free if Luke Skywalker wasn't so damn powerful
Originally posted by WildBantha88
The part where he was 3 steps ahead of several of that era's best tacticians
Originally posted by WildBantha88
destroyed a large Republic fleet including one of the biggest and most advanced ships ever built
He won't have such an advantage here.
Originally posted by WildBantha88
and would have gotten away scott free if Luke Skywalker wasn't so damn powerful
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan's Battle Precognition > Darksight. Fite me irl m8.Then again, Selenal legitimately thinks Surik is comparable to Revan as a tactician, so I can't be too surprised. 😉
Not sure why you need to lie to get out of the hilarious hope you've dug but ok.
She's comparable as a ship to ship tactician, that much is literally stated you just can't look at two things at once, and obviously marvelling at the minuscule hard on you have for revan is more fascinating to you 😕
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
How so? Meetra's forces were being completely devastated at Malachor V until Revan showed up. And he manipulated her during the entire Battle of Dxun.
They were being decimated because she had half the forces, he planned it that way to make sure no one loyal to her (half the Republic navy) survived, or he'd have a harder time taking the core.
Originally posted by Selenial
They were being decimated because she had half the forces, he planned it that way to make sure no one loyal to her (half the Republic navy) survived, or he'd have a harder time taking the core.
Where is this stated?
Yes, Revan used the device to "clean house" but where is it stated that those he killed were loyal to the Exile rather than the Republic?
Revan wins, obviously. Cronal is smart and cunning, and he has Darksight, granted. However, warfare is completely different from political machinations. Cronal has one showing of genuine tactical skill in war, just one. Revan has masterminded two wars, one of which he won completely and utterly against a vastly superior military force, the other he would have won if not for the betrayal of his apprentice.
Let's keep in mind Revan's accomplishments during the Mandalorian Wars. Not only had the Mandalorians broken into the Core Worlds, but the Republic was on the verge of collapse by that point:
The Mandalorians reach the Core Worlds at Duro. The Republic is on the verge of collapse.
Despite this, Revan and his Jedi defeated the Mandalorians in but a year (Revan joined in 3961 and the war ended in 3960). Revan didn't just defeat them, though, he utterly crushed them. Almost all of Mandalore the Ultimate's gains were rolled back by Revan's forces:
Revan rolled back almost all of Mandalore the Ultimate's gains, retaking Taris and wiping out the Mandalorian ground forces at Althir.
From there, Revan drew the Mandalorians into a trap at Malachor V and utterly annihilated them to the point that the Mandalorians could never pose a galactic threat again.
Now, what about Cronal?
Yes, Cronal waged his own war, this time against the New Republic. He was rather successful of course. However, take note that the galaxy was in chaos during this time. The New Republic was still fighting the Galactic Civil War, making engagements with other Imperial forces (such as the Warlord Zsinj), Ssi-ruuk, Lumiya and the Nagai, as well as its continuing campaigns into the Core World. (Review the Essential Atlas, the Essential Guide to Warfare, or even Wookieepedia to confirm)
Essentially, Cronal engaged a distracted New Republic. It should be obvious that he did so well. In comparison, Revan took a broken Republic and met the Mandalorians head on, utterly crushing them while simultaneously working to corrupt his own forces.
But Cronal set up that trap, right? One of his better accomplishments? Yes he did, and yes it is. Thing is, it didn't work. If we're still comparing Revan's feats in the Mandalorian Wars to Cronal's, then Revan has him beat in the development of traps. Mostly because his trap was actually successful. Even better, Revan wasn't even there for most of the battle at Malachor V. Revan's trap was so well-founded that he didn't even need to execute it personally until the final stages. On the flip side, Cronal was at Mindor and he still lost.
I would refer to Rishi for another example of Revan's skill in that particular area, but it seems to have already been mentioned, so I don't feel a pressing need to get into it.
Revan is the superior tactician, obviously. I think we can all agree to that, right? Moving on...
So, what about Darksight? Well, as a perceptive ability it is incredibly powerful. However, it has one major flaw. As has been posted already, Darksight drives Cronal slowly insane. If Cronal were to rely on this ability since he is so outclassed in tactical abilities, he would slowly drive himself towards insanity. Psychological warfare (one of Revan's most used methods) becomes that much more effective. Revan's mass deceptions skyrocket in efficiency. Etc, etc. Revan's advanced military tactics are practically designed to take advantage of Cronal's slowly growing insanity and paranoia.
And not to mention Revan's own advanced perceptive abilities. Revan can see the paths of entire wars and outdo other masters of precognitive abilities, as he demonstrated during the engagements with the Echani's greatest warrior Yusanis.
So, assuming Cronal uses Darksight and sees himself winning against Revan, the latter will most likely be able to predict Cronal's movements and counter them. It's simple, Cronal sees the outcome and attempts to manipulate events towards that outcome. Revan sees these events and counters.
Regardless, Revan is the superior military commander and has a means of contending with Cronal's Darksight, flawed as it is. Based on all of the above and more, Revan should come out on top.
Originally posted by ares834
Where is this stated?Yes, Revan used the device to "clean house" but where is it stated that those he killed were loyal to the Exile rather than the Republic?
He killed those who weren't loyal to him, there's a difference.
One of the Kreia speeches, or Atris in the Revan Novel. I forget.