Kao Cen Darach Ven Zallow Satele Shan vs Darth Sidious

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Kit Fisto was regarded as the among the greatest lightsaber duelists not only in the Order, but in the Order's history. He easily defeated General Grievous, who has slaughtered countless Jedi and has gone toe to toe with the likes of Windu and Kenobi.

He has been described as "impossibly fast", blitzed Magaguards, themselves having Jedi like reactions, moved faster than even Kenobi could see and has deflected blaster fire from dozens of shooters from multiple angles while engaging a room for of armed prisoners in melee combat.

Finally as an esteemed Jedi Consular, he has developed his own underwater Force abilities, including a telekinetic bubble that could blow holes in vehicles with military grade armor. Ven Zallow does not compare.

Ven Zallow was thought to be the only Jedi who could possibly take down malgus or at least stalemate him. Malgus is no doubt greater than fisto. If the two fought fisto would lose as fisto is weak against single opponents as evident by his loss to ventress someone thought to be below grevious. Malgus has also went toe to toe and beaten Satele Shan. So with that Ven Zallow is greater than fisto.

Being fast is a normal Jedi ability. Being impossibly fast title such as that are just normal Jedi abilities. The only titles that actually mean something are Fading in and out of existence and being a blur of motion which have only been achieved by Sidious, an amped windu, and yoda. All of who, are clearly above fisto.

All of which will not help him in a one on one battle above water. Also being an underwater being he would definitly attribute some force abilities to his native sea. So all of that won't help him against Zallow.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Ven Zallow was thought to be the only Jedi who could possibly take down malgus or at least stalemate him.

When was this ever stated?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Same is true for Jedi Master Usma who fought alongside other Jedi (including Ven Zallow) in the Jedi Temple on Coruscant. Yet, Darth Malgus regarded only Zallow as a worthy foe.

B/W Lord Praven killed Jedi Master Usma.

Usma was regarded as one of the best of his time. Fisto and Kolar are renowned as one of the best of all time massive difference as one covers a few decades the other covers 20000 years.

I recall this confrontation a bit differently; Kit Fisto managed to hold his own against General Grievous but only bid time to escape. Also as a Force-user, he is really lacking; his Force push had negligible impact on Grievous.

If by 'hold his own' you mean cut off one of his arms and put him on his ass then yes you're right. Grievous has tanked Force attacks that rip up durasteel plates so that hardly reflects poorly on him.

Also, Grievous is known to fight dirty. He defeated Nahdar Vebb with use of firearms after he was unable to outduel him. In addition, he is known to utilize his Magnaguards to tire Jedi out before making a move for the kill.

A genuinely competent Jedi should be able to defeat Grievous.

The guy has still defeated Council Members, stalemated Mace Windu, and put Kenobi on his ass.

And still lost to Asajj Ventress?

Hype alone doesn't covers Fisto's shortcomings in lightsaber combat.

Ventress studied his form and had an advantage due to Makashi being developed to defeat Shi-Cho

And how is this showing relevant for his dueling ability? It didn't prevent his defeats at the hands of Ventress and Darth Sidious.

He is absolutely better than Kit Fisto.

Ventress is one of the most skilled duelists in history and she had prep. Darth Sidious is the most skilled Sith duelist in galactic history.

👆 👆 👆

While all this arguing is very interesting, I'm sure, none of it changes the fact Sidious, particularly DE Sidious as that's who the topic said this was, LOLs at these guys.

[QUOTE=15209022]Originally posted by Based
When was this ever stated? [/QUO

Never explicitly stated but the duel says it all. Also not saying you go with it but his wookipediaa gives him so props as well. I suggest you look at that just to be informed.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Usma was regarded as one of the best of his time. Fisto and Kolar are renowned as one of the best of all time massive difference as one covers a few decades the other covers 20000 years.

During the Sacking of Coruscant, Lord Praven killed Master Usma–one of the Jedi's most famous duelists–in an epic battle.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic

This accolade isn't era-specific.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
If by 'hold his own' you mean cut off one of his arms and put him on his ass then yes you're right. Grievous has tanked Force attacks that rip up durasteel plates so that hardly reflects poorly on him.

Also, if Kit Fisto was winning, why did he flee?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
The guy has still defeated Council Members, stalemated Mace Windu, and put Kenobi on his ass.

I don't recall Greivous stalemating Mace Windu. The former ended-up badly injured in this confrontation.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Ventress studied his form and had an advantage due to Makashi being developed to defeat Shi-Cho

ANALOGY: Ventress is familiar with Count Dooku's dueling prowess as well, and couldn't manage to outduel him still.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Ventress is one of the most skilled duelists in history and she had prep.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Darth Sidious is the most skilled Sith duelist in galactic history.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No, Jedi Master Usma is among the best of all time.

During the Sacking of Coruscant, Lord Praven killed Master Usma–one of the Jedi's most famous duelists–in an epic battle.

Taken from [B]Star Wars: The Old Republic

This accolade isn't era-specific. [/B]

Actually that's entirely era specific, if you asked people today to describe who the most famous football players are, I'm guessing 99% of them would be current day. Not to mention that Duelists in War Time are obviously doing to be celebrated, just like Surik had news stations all over Coruscant that detailed her deeds.

Famous does not mean skilled.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No, Jedi Master Usma is among the best of all time.

During the Sacking of Coruscant, Lord Praven killed Master Usma–one of the Jedi's most famous duelists–in an epic battle.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic

This accolade isn't era-specific.

Yes it is.

I am using Obi-Wan Kenobi as a benchmark in this respect. Kenobi's Force push sent Grievous flying across the hall.

Also, if Kit Fisto was winning, why did he flee?

Because he was outnumbered and in a thick mist.

General Grievous have cybernetic parts that grant him the strength, speed, and technical ability to contend with Jedi. However, Grievous still plays dirty and his four hands come-in handy for the purpose.

I don't recall Greivous stalemating Mace Windu. The former ended-up badly injured in this confrontation.

Your point is? The Jedi have the fricken Force to back them up, Grievous using tricks only evens the playing field. He did, read LoE.

If by studying you mean witnessing him fighting for the first time, then yes. This isn't a sound argument. While Ventress might be good at reading her targets, Fisto's failure is his own.

ANALOGY: Ventress is familiar with Count Dooku's dueling prowess as well, and couldn't manage to outduel him still.

Red herring. I can study Muhammad Ali all I want and I'll never be able to beat him. But if I see my peer fight before I fight him that is a distinct advantage. As is the form advantage.

Based on?

Her defeating some of the most skilled duelists in history.

Based on?

Not sure if serious. Sidious' feats and accolades show him as the most powerful Sith Lord in history. Him contending with Yoda and Mace who are amongst the foremost blademasters in the history of the order, as well as his mastery of the 7 forms easily places him as the top of all the Sith.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No, Jedi Master Usma is among the best of all time.

During the Sacking of Coruscant, Lord Praven killed Master Usma–one of the Jedi's most famous duelists–in an epic battle.

Taken from [B]Star Wars: The Old Republic

This accolade isn't era-specific.

I am using Obi-Wan Kenobi as a benchmark in this respect. Kenobi's Force push sent Grievous flying across the hall.

Also, if Kit Fisto was winning, why did he flee?

General Grievous have cybernetic parts that grant him the strength, speed, and technical ability to contend with Jedi. However, Grievous still plays dirty and his four hands come-in handy for the purpose.

I don't recall Greivous stalemating Mace Windu. The former ended-up badly injured in this confrontation.

If by studying you mean witnessing him fighting for the first time, then yes. This isn't a sound argument. While Ventress might be good at reading her targets, Fisto's failure is his own.

ANALOGY: Ventress is familiar with Count Dooku's dueling prowess as well, and couldn't manage to outduel him still.

Based on?

Based on? [/B]

1. She is one of the best of her time.

2. Does grevious have a real defense to force attacks at all?

3. I agree he wasn't winning until he got the second saber. He was relying on the fog around him to cover him.

4. Fistos failure is his own I agree.

5. She is skilled but not of all time maybe of her time and not at the top but she is still skilled.

6. Do you really need that question answered. Sidious has stalemated yoda, defeated Luke skywalker, speed blitzed some of the best duelist of all time, and is better than the master of the order mace windu, being able to defeat the combined might of savage oppress and Darth maul. What dueling feats does vitiate have that can match those.

Originally posted by Selenial
Actually that's entirely era specific, if you asked people today to describe who the most famous football players are, I'm guessing 99% of them would be current day. Not to mention that Duelists in War Time are obviously doing to be celebrated, just like Surik had news stations all over Coruscant that detailed her deeds.

Famous does not mean skilled.

Huh. She did? During the actual game or after she'd beaten the Triumvirate?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Yes it is.

Jedi Master Usma is among the most famous duelists of the Order. This accolade doesn't implies "of her time."

Here is an example of an era-specific accolade:

"Luke Skywalker is still the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy. I think we should assume he has a plan," Jaina said..

Taken from Star Wars: Fate of the Jedi: Vortex

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Because he was outnumbered and in a thick mist.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Your point is? The Jedi have the fricken Force to back them up, Grievous using tricks only evens the playing field. He did, read LoE.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Red herring. I can study Muhammad Ali all I want and I'll never be able to beat him. But if I see my peer fight before I fight him that is a distinct advantage. As is the form advantage.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Her defeating some of the most skilled duelists in history.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Not sure if serious. Sidious' feats and accolades show him as the most powerful Sith Lord in history. Him contending with Yoda and Mace who are amongst the foremost blademasters in the history of the order, as well as his mastery of the 7 forms easily places him as the top of all the Sith.

Again, where it have been stated that Yoda and Mace Windu are the best lightsaber combatants in galactic history? They are the best in their era, not in galactic history.

Cin Drallig was also a master of all forms of lightsaber combat. And we know how his duel with Anakin went.

I am not doubting Sidious's competency but I am pointing out the false hype.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Huh. She did? During the actual game or after she'd beaten the Triumvirate?

Before and during the game I guess, she was hailed as the last Jedi by the actual republic, it seems.

But yeh, she was purposefully made intensely famous.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I disagree.

Jedi Master Usma is among the most famous duelists of the Order. This accolade doesn't implies "of her time."

Here is an example of an era-specific accolade:

"Luke Skywalker is still the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy. I think we should assume he has a plan," Jaina said..

Taken from Star Wars: Fate of the Jedi: Vortex

You are entitled to your wrong opinion. Nothing about your Usma quote suggests her being anything beyond best of her time.

Fair enough. But General Grievous didn't improve afterwards?

There's no canon statement on the matter only assumptions. But I'd say Grievous did improve, however Fisto was also able to survive for a bit of time even after the magna guards fought him.

Grievous being able to kill some Jedi proves that he is a formidable combatant. However, we are talking about the Jedi's finest. Greivous doesn't compares to them.

I suppose Ki-Adi Mundi, Shaak Ti, and Aayla Secura are not the Jedi's finest? Or what about Kenobi?

I don't get this analogy. Witnessing Kit Fisto fighting for the first time wouldn't make any difference. Replace Asajj Ventress with Count Dooku and do you still believe that Fisto would have had a chance at defeating Dooku or blame Fisto for being inferior?

Red herring. Dooku and Fisto aren't even in the same league.

And these are? And no official confirmation for this?

Luminara Unduli and Kit Fisto.

Don't start with the "most powerful" nonsense. Darth Sidious have rivals in this matter. Also, this thread is about lightsaber combat.

Canon statements aren't nonsense even if they don't fit your view buddy. And yes I am aware.

Again, where it have been stated that Yoda and Mace Windu are the best lightsaber combatants in galactic history? They are the best in their era, not in galactic history.

*sigh*
"Only then can we understand the extraordinary combat moves of Yoda, perhaps the greatest lightsaber master the Jedi Order has ever seen."- #62: Fightsaber: Jedi Lightsaber Combat

"With a stooped, small appearance, Yoda may not look like a warrior, but his skills with a lightsaber were unequaled."-Taken from Lightsabers: A Guide to Weapons of the Force

Throw this in with his accolades of being the avatar of the light and him casually dodging Saesee, Plo Koon, and Depa three of the greatest blademasters the Order has ever produced and yes its easy to imply Yoda is the greatest swordsmaster the Order had ever produced surpassed only by Luke.

Cin Drallig was also a master of all forms of lightsaber combat. And we know how his duel with Anakin went.

Skill doesn't help when your opponent is far more powerful than you.

I am not doubting Sidious's competency but I am pointing out the false hype.

Its not really false. Sidious' feats with a blade are well above any other Sith Lord. No one else has made fools of celebrated blade masters except for you guessed it Yoda.

...It's true. Vitiate's bladework is decidedly subpar for his overall strength, and...really, who else is going to compete? Caedus? No, he's not gonna be able to pull it off.

Tulak Hord.

...Vs SIDIOUS?

...Yeah. Go ahead. Make that thread. Sidious'll laugh Hord right off the forum.

Whether or not he's above him, he is not "well above" him. Sidious certainly has rivals in swordsmanship.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Whether or not he's above him, he is not "well above" him. Sidious certainly has rivals in swordsmanship.

Considering I said Sidious feats are well above any known Sith Lord and all Horde has are accolades and hype my point still stands. Come back when he has on screen feats and not 'Jill told me Tulak hooked up with 1000 Jedi at once'.

🙄

What about Krayt then?