Originally posted by Galan007
^ 👆Not really. V-Jump canonically confirmed that Beerus was far and away the most powerful being in the history of Z at the time of BoG. This means Beerus>>>Vegetto by proxy. Additionally, most agree Vegetto>>Gogeta... Which means the latter would add nothing of note to this fight.
So yeah, Beerus would stomp. An official statement from V-Jump trumps anyone's opinion here. 🙂
Pretty sure it's Akira Toriyama's job to show what's canon and what isn't.
Just as well, Vegeta made Beerus spit out blood, it's very possible that Beerus let his guard down, but earlier in the fight, Vegeta punched him and little to no damage befell him.
Also, Vegito and Gogeta have better feats.
Talk to me when Beerus displays Gogeta's speed, then we'll talk.
Originally posted by Jmanghan-The Daizenshuu
Pretty sure it's Akira Toriyama's job to show what's canon and what isn't.Just as well, Vegeta made Beerus spit out blood, it's very possible that Beerus let his guard down, but earlier in the fight, Vegeta punched him and little to no damage befell him.
Also, Vegito and Gogeta have better feats.
Talk to me when Beerus displays Gogeta's speed, then we'll talk.
The above sources are all of equal canonicity as the manga itself. That is to say: if something is shown/stated in one of the above sources, it is canon. Indisputably canon.
That said, almost ALL of Akira's official interviews over the years have taken place in V-Jump--as do most other official spoilers, and/or new tidbits pertaining to Dragonball--it is Japan's primary source of info for this genre, ffs. To argue the facts it states is ridiculous.
As I said earlier: V-Jump trumps anyone's opinion here.
Originally posted by Time ImmemorialThe quote from V-Jump certainly made it sound like Beerus was insurmountably beyond anything that had ever appeared in DBZ before(Vegetto notwithstanding)... So it seems unlikely that SSJ Vegetto would force Beerus to use the bulk of his power, like SSJG did. Aside from that, the context of the film itself heavily implied that SSJG was the only powerup that might allow the Z fighters to stand any sort of chance against Beerus... Which further implies SSJG Goku>SSJ Vegetto. But I digress.
Is Super Vegetto as strong as SSJG?
All that really matters here is that Beerus wins. And comfortably so. 🙂
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
What's wrong with the thread is the fact that Super Vegetto is already as strong as SSJG Goku, if not even stronger. And the fact that Gogeta is such a massive variable. Going by Fusion Reborn, he's obviously a lot stronger than SSJ3 Goku, but going by how a metamoran fusion between Goku and Vegeta SHOULD come out, they would maybe be twice as strong as Gotenks.Either way, this thread is silly, and if Vegetto can go SSJ2, he solo's Bills and Whiss at the same time.
Nope
Whis>Bills>Vegetto.
Beerus one shotted Mystic Gohan who was at what like half power of Buuhan, or around there? And this is when Beerus was holding back. Not saying Veg had much issues but it's still something to consider.
It's not a direct comparison but it's about as direct as you're going to get.
Plus Beerus was only at like 70 percent at his max output when he fought Goku.
Originally posted by Branlor SwiftSuper Buu and SSJ3 Gotenks were about equal(with a slight edge to Gotenks.) So when Buu absorbed Gotenks, his power would have roughly doubled. As Buutenks, he became more powerful than Mystic Gohan, but Gohan was still powerful enough to put up a fight--so the difference between them couldn't have been overly significant. The main reason Buutenks gained the advantage was due to the wacky attack(s) he duped from Gotenks(Gohan certainly wasn't prepared for that kind of shit.)
Beerus one shotted Mystic Gohan who was at what like half power of Buuhan, or around there? And this is when Beerus was holding back. Not saying Veg had much issues but it's still something to consider.
So yeah, if Mystic Gohan was powerful enough to put up a fight against Buutenks, it means his power was nearly 2x> Super Buu's... Which means Buuhan's power would have been nearly 2x> Buutenks... Which means that Gohan possessed a little less than half the power of Buuhan.
...And while holding back tremendously, Beerus wtfpwned Gohan with a few casual hits.
Originally posted by Branlor SwiftYup. And that 70% was still enough for him to handle SSJG Goku with a fair amount of ease. Had he increased that percentage a little bit, Beerus could have stomped Goku just as easily as he did everyone else.
Plus Beerus was only at like 70 percent at his max output when he fought Goku.
Originally posted by Galan007
^ 👆Not really. V-Jump canonically confirmed that Beerus was far and away the most powerful being in the history of Z at the time of BoG. This means Beerus>>>Vegetto by proxy. Additionally, most agree Vegetto>>Gogeta... Which means the latter would add nothing of note to this fight.
So yeah, Beerus would stomp. An official statement from V-Jump trumps anyone's opinion here. 🙂
Who says Vegetto >> Gogeta? I've seen the odd argument, but on average it's either assumed Vegetto's better due to lack of time restrictions, or that if potera does produce a stronger fusion, it's still competitive with dance fusion. So maybe Vegetto ≥ Gogeta.
Anyways, Goku confirmed Vegetto can't beat Bills in the extended cut BOTG. But he seemed little unsure of it.
Originally posted by Galan007Didn't the Buutenks fusion wear off too? And he was just Piccolo, Trunks, and Goten at the time he absorbed Gohan?
Super Buu and SSJ3 Gotenks were about equal(with a slight edge to Gotenks.) So when Buu absorbed Gotenks, his power would have roughly doubled. As Buutenks, he became more powerful than Mystic Gohan, but Gohan was still powerful enough to put up a fight--so the difference between them couldn't have been overly significant. The main reason Buutenks gained the advantage was due to the wacky attack(s) he duped from Gotenks(Gohan certainly wasn't prepared for that kind of shit.)So yeah, if Mystic Gohan was powerful enough to put up a fight against Buutenks, it means his power was nearly 2x> Super Buu's... Which means Buuhan's power would have been nearly 2x> Buutenks... Which means that Gohan possessed a little less than half the power of Buuhan.
...And while holding back tremendously, Beerus wtfpwned Gohan with a few casual hits.
Yup. And that 70% was still enough for him to handle SSJG Goku with a fair amount of ease. Had he increased that percentage a little bit, Beerus could have stomped Goku just as easily as he did everyone else.
Originally posted by cdtm
Who says Vegetto >> Gogeta? I've seen the odd argument, but on average it's either assumed Vegetto's better due to lack of time restrictions, or that if potera does produce a stronger fusion, it's still competitive with dance fusion. So maybe Vegetto ≥ Gogeta.
My thought as well.
Originally posted by cdtm
Who says Vegetto >> Gogeta? I've seen the odd argument, but on average it's either assumed Vegetto's better due to lack of time restrictions, or that if potera does produce a stronger fusion, it's still competitive with dance fusion. So maybe Vegetto ≥ Gogeta.Anyways, Goku confirmed Vegetto can't beat Bills in the extended cut BOTG. But he seemed little unsure of it.
The idiot known as Gogeta said it.
Originally posted by cdtmAside from what you mentioned, there is also the fact that Buuhan(with the minds of Piccolo, Gohan, Goten, and Trunks) said that a fusion between Goku and Vegeta still wouldn't be able to defeat him in his current state. He was obviously talking about the Metamoran-style of fusion, as that is all he/they had knowledge of at the time:
Who says Vegetto >> Gogeta? I've seen the odd argument, but on average it's either assumed Vegetto's better due to lack of time restrictions, or that if potera does produce a stronger fusion, it's still competitive with dance fusion.
Goku also told Vegeta that Potara fusion was the only way to defeat Buuhan, which implies that not even he thought Metamoran fusion was enough:
{Chapter: 503 (DBZ 309), P8.8
Context: Goku tries to get Vegeta to use the Potara with him, but Vegeta refuses
Goku: "I thought you might say that…! There isn't any other way to beat Majin Boo!"}
...Then Vegetto is formed, and proceeds to effortlessly stomp Buuhan. This tells us that Potara>>Metamoran, which means Vegetto>>Gogeta by proxy. 🙂
Originally posted by Branlor SwiftYes.
Didn't the Buutenks fusion wear off too? And he was just Piccolo, Trunks, and Goten at the time he absorbed Gohan?
Originally posted by juggermanI know you think Super Buu was >, but if you actually look at the fight itself, Gotenks definitely had the clear upperhand--especially toward the end. Had his fusion not worn off when it did, it's entirely possible that Gotenks could have beaten Buu in one more attack(even Goku thought so.) So yeah... Based on their battle, I believe SSJ3 Gotenks>Super Buu(marginally.)
No
However, if you want to call them equals for whatever reason, I'm fine with that. So long as we're clear that Super Buu was absolutely not more powerful. 👆
Originally posted by Galan007
I know you think Super Buu was >, but if you actually look at the fight itself, Gotenks definitely had the clear upperhand--especially toward the end. Had his fusion not worn off when it did, it's entirely possible that Gotenks could have beaten Buu in one more attack(even Goku thought so.) So yeah... Based on their battle, I believe SSJ3 Gotenks>Super Buu(marginally.)However, if you want to call them equals for whatever reason, I'm fine with that. So long as we're clear that Super Buu was absolutely not more powerful. 👆
Fite me IRL
Galan, while it's true those statements imply a dance fusion of Goku and Vegeta wouldn't be enough, we also have the old Kaio-shin telling Kibito-shin that Goku and Vegeta's rivaley account for Vegetto's unusually high power level, and not the potera's. Meaning if thr potera's properties had nothing to do with the rival boost, it follows dance fusion should get a similar boost.
Originally posted by cdtm1.) Elder Kaioshin implied that Vegetto's power was amped a bit because Goku/Vegeta were rivals. However, he mainly attributed Vegetto's "unusually high power level" to the fact that 2 of the most powerful beings in the universe had fused... Of course the end result is going to be mega-powerful.
Galan, while it's true those statements imply a dance fusion of Goku and Vegeta wouldn't be enough, we also have the old Kaio-shin telling Kibito-shin that Goku and Vegeta's rivaley account for Vegetto's unusually high power level, and not the potera's. Meaning if thr potera's properties had nothing to do with the rival boost, it follows dance fusion should get a similar boost.
2.) It was never stated that the Metamoran method of fusion gleans a rival boost--and with no supportive evidence, it would be foolish to assume it does. Metamoran and Potara are two completely different methods of fusion, after all... ABC logic cannot be used here.
3.) Buuhan(who had experienced Metamoran first hand, and who was also packing the wisdom of Piccolo+Gohan) explicitly stated that Goku and Vegeta still couldn't beat him if they were to fuse(ie. Buuhan>Gogeta)... But then they use the Potara method of fusion(which Buuhan couldn't have possibly accounted for), and it turns into a completely one-sided shitstomp in Vegetto's favor. This leads us to only one conclusion: Potara>>Metamoran; Vegetto>>Gogeta.