Originally posted by h1a8
ABC logic doesn't usually work since characters have different power sets (Ronan is not as skilled as either ) and characters don't always fight at full capacity in a comic (they even job at times ).Namora is physically her superior with a little less skill. It's a decent fight but Namora edges it out. Otherwise WW stomps BA since the skill gap is greater and the strength gap is smaller.
Ronan is not as skilled as who?
Originally posted by h1a8
ABC logic doesn't usually work since characters have different power sets (Ronan is not as skilled as either ) and characters don't always fight at full capacity in a comic (they even job at times ).Namora is physically her superior with a little less skill. It's a decent fight but Namora edges it out. Otherwise WW stomps BA since the skill gap is greater and the strength gap is smaller.
What actually works here is that Gamora is currently augmented by the Black Vortex, and she would kill all of the characters being mentioned in this thread. She wins nothing more to debate.
Originally posted by Stoic
And Gamora one shot KO'd both Rogue, and She Hulk leaving the latter stunned on the ground. If Gamora wanted to kill either, or both, she would have been able to. meanwhile Carol gave Namora a fight, and it wasn't the overwhelming beating that some are alluding to. Should I remind you that strength isn't everything, and that Rogue at one point was just as strong as Carol? Well guess what? She Hulk is rated as being stronger than both. That didn't stop the one shots from being passed around though, not to mention that Gamora isn't exactly a weakling under many writers pens.Your previous comment made it sound like "if they were submerged in Water", not sprinkled with it. Again strength only goes so far, and Gamora isn't a weakling. Namora beat Carol after a prolonged exchange. What do you think is more impressive? Gamora one shotting Rogue, and She Hulk, or Namora eventually beating Ms. Marvel who happens to be as strong as classic Rogue was? You do know that Rogue was capable of punching people into orbit as well right? Also I read the fight between Namora and Ms Marvel. Don't know why you or anyone would think that the showing was more impressive than Gamora beating the two that I mentioned?
Um rogue aint as strong as miss marvel,and miss marvel is exponentially more durable(bullet proof),so two shotting her is actually quite impressive,she hulk wasn't as strong then as now either. Gamora didn't one shot rogue either,that was she hulk who did that by mistake,and then she cheapshotted her when she was distracted,it showcases her skill yea,but dosent help her in this match. Namora has also taken on hulk,blitzed thor and dragged his ass into water and trapped him in a maelstorm for a short while among other things. Unless this is the planet busting version of gamora,she can't win.
Originally posted by Genii96
Um rogue aint as strong as miss marvel,and miss marvel is exponentially more durable(bullet proof),so two shotting her is actually quite impressive,she hulk wasn't as strong then as now either. Gamora didn't one shot rogue either,that was she hulk who did that by mistake,and then she cheapshotted her when she was distracted,it showcases her skill yea,but dosent help her in this match. Namora has also taken on hulk,blitzed thor and dragged his ass into water and trapped him in a maelstorm for a short while among other things. Unless this is the planet busting version of gamora,she can't win.
That doesn't mean a thing when your opponent finds their way behind you and knocks your block off. The characters that you mentioned aren't on Gamora's skill level. You want to pull out the ammo? My guns are bigger. Gamora did as much damage to Thanos as Namor did, but she didn't end up breaking her hand or foot while striking him several times. Nor was he able to touch her. Namora is roughly Namor's equal in speed and agility as well as power and durability. Thanos grabbed namor, and nearly made him Nomor. Gamora arguably put as much damage on Thanos as Black Bolt. Should I pull out more ammo? I think I may, I think I might.
We don't argue power set alone around here. For example; just because you have the power to flatten a mountain, doesn't mean that you're good at using that power. Combat expertise goes to Gamora. Another thing, we use current characterizations unless specifically mentioned in the OP. Base level Gamora has better feats than Namora alone, and Black Vortex (the current incarnation of Gamora) would destroy Namora in seconds. When I see Namora do well against Angela, she'll get more props from me. She is beastly, don't get me wrong, but Gamora is just on another level in terms of combat expertise, and battlefield awareness. She's a genius. She's also way hotter.
Originally posted by Stoic
That doesn't mean a thing when your opponent finds their way behind you and knocks your block off. The characters that you mentioned aren't on Gamora's skill level. You want to pull out the ammo? My guns are bigger. Gamora did as much damage to Thanos as Namor did, but she didn't end up breaking her hand or foot while striking him several times. Nor was he able to touch her. Namora is roughly Namor's equal in speed and agility as well as power and durability. Thanos grabbed namor, and nearly made him Nomor. Gamora arguably put as much damage on Thanos as Black Bolt. Should I pull out more ammo? I think I may, I think I might.We don't argue power set alone around here. For example; just because you have the power to flatten a mountain, doesn't mean that you're good at using that power. Combat expertise goes to Gamora. Another thing, we use current characterizations unless specifically mentioned in the OP. Base level Gamora has better feats than Namora alone, and Black Vortex (the current incarnation of Gamora) would destroy Namora in seconds. When I see Namora do well against Angela, she'll get more props from me. She is beastly, don't get me wrong, but Gamora is just on another level in terms of combat expertise, and battlefield awareness. She's a genius. She's also way hotter.
The only reason gamora did shit to thanos was cuz he allowed it,she even admitted it herself that he let her get close. Namor floored thanos and bloodied his face with a punch.
She got behind she hulk yea,however she only managed to knock her our cuz she hulk accidentally hit rogue,which distracted her,had it been a one on one it wouldn't have gone that way,not to mention she hulk at time was much weaker than currently.heck in the fight agatins the x men with the agents of atlas,namora just plowed through colossus easily. The only advantage pre upgrade gamora would have over would be skill,and even that wouldn't be of much use here.
If u see namora as namor's equal roughly un durability as well,then hurting her would become even more of a tassle,namor took a vibranium blade to the heart followed by a full fledged bb scream and got right back up.
This is assuming there is no water source nearby. Post upgrade gamora stomps yea,pre loses
According to the tiers thread, Namora and Gamora are in the same tier class. I see Namora destroying ships by flying threw them and lifting them up in the air. Judging by that, I'd say Namora can lift hundreds, if not thousands of tons when she's hydrated. If this is true, then Namora should easily beat pre-Vortex Gamora. It's probably more likely that writers are just underestimating how much a ship weighs.
Originally posted by Genii96
The only reason gamora did shit to thanos was cuz he allowed it,she even admitted it herself that he let her get close. Namor floored thanos and bloodied his face with a punch.She got behind she hulk yea,however she only managed to knock her our cuz she hulk accidentally hit rogue,which distracted her,had it been a one on one it wouldn't have gone that way,not to mention she hulk at time was much weaker than currently.heck in the fight agatins the x men with the agents of atlas,namora just plowed through colossus easily. The only advantage pre upgrade gamora would have over would be skill,and even that wouldn't be of much use here.
If u see namora as namor's equal roughly un durability as well,then hurting her would become even more of a tassle,namor took a vibranium blade to the heart followed by a full fledged bb scream and got right back up.
This is assuming there is no water source nearby. Post upgrade gamora stomps yea,pre loses
she was able to draw blood from Thanos. I never said that she would have defeated him, while on the other hand Namor broke his hand just punching Thanos. It's also not hard to knock someone to the ground that weighs 800 lbs if you are capable of lifting 100s - 1000s of tons. Namor never floored Thanos are you kidding me? Thanos was playing with Namor the entire time, and not once did that fight favor Namor. Thanos was in full control. Thanos tried to grab Gamora, he missed when he used his eye beams. This was likely Thanos testing how much his teachings paid off to his former student. However Gamora still did better against Thanos than Namor did.
You don't seem to be able to get past arguing based on power set alone. Gamora has superior combat expertise between the two of them, she also has a decent healing factor, and can take a very good hit on average. Yes they are tough, but that does not mean that they are immune to being KO'd pressure point strikes to nerve clusters would KO'd even the toughest of opponents. This does not mean that Gamora is stronger or more durable than Namora. We also don't argue solely based on Tier sets, because if we did we would be surprised and disappointed every time a weaker character clowned a stronger and more powerful one. This is something that happens all of the time in comics.l it isn't PIS, it's just that one character has the ability the defeat others above their weight class. In this case Namora isn't far above Gamora in terms of her physical stats. Don't know why it's so difficult for you to see this.
Namora only has like a handful of appearances, and you seem to be going gaga over her. Allow her some time to be fleshed out, and you will see that she will suffer upsets just like all of the other characters that have had hundreds of appearances, and that's if Marvel doesn't just kill her off, or deep six her.
Originally posted by Mike82
According to the tiers thread, Namora and Gamora are in the same tier class. I see Namora destroying ships by flying threw them and lifting them up in the air. Judging by that, I'd say Namora can lift hundreds, if not thousands of tons when she's hydrated. If this is true, then Namora should easily beat pre-Vortex Gamora. It's probably more likely that writers are just underestimating how much a ship weighs.
Who cares if she can destroy ships? The Hulk can destroy planets, but that did not stop Captain America from KOing him. This isn't Thor, the Hulk, Blue Marvel, or Sentry that we are talking about. None of these guys fight like Gamora, I wouldn't give her the win over them, but they simply don't have her combat expertise, because they use brute force attacks, while she uses master level martial arts, and nerve strikes to bring her foes down. his is something that Namora would have to deal with. Gamora isn't going to be going for the tests of strength, she going to be parrying punches to set up her opponent up for a sneak attack. Gamora has the strength to hurt Namora without resorting to nerve strikes. With them she could paralyze Namora for brief instances. I have strong doubts that Namora would survive Angela.
Originally posted by StoicApparently that upgrade caused a downgrade. Her performance is worst than her normal self. So the so called upgrade is meaningless as it only quantified a negative change.
What actually works here is that Gamora is currently augmented by the Black Vortex, and she would kill all of the characters being mentioned in this thread. She wins nothing more to debate.
Originally posted by StoicI understand you. But Namora is very skilled too.
Imagine if Thor could fight as well as the Karate Kid. Who in comics could possibly defeat him in unarmed combat? Who? This is what i am getting at. It's a good thing that Gamora is only roughly a class 50, because if she was a class 100 as she is now, she'd be a monster, just like she is now.
Originally posted by h1a8
I understand you. But Namora is very skilled too.
In the BA vs. WW thread the high majority of kmc give BA the win although he's not vastly stronger or durable but is vastly less skilled.
I believe WW wins because of the same reasons you believe Gamora wins. But my argument is far stronger (The skill gap is greater in WWs case) yet it isn't as popular.
First of all I agree with your judgement in the WW vs BA scenario. WW is a better fighter, she has better weapons, and is as strong or nearly as strong a BA. She would be able to hurt him, and she would hit him far more times than he would hit her. To me fights are decided by combat expertise which should always come before pure power, but only to a point. For instance; Bruce Lee could not hope hurt the Wonder Man, let alone defeat him with his level of power. But, if he were almost as strong as Simon he would destroy him without it being a contest.
Namora is not as good of a fighter as Gamora is. Not even close TBH. Exotic Alien Martial Art's are Gamora's bread and butter. She's also strong enough to hurt someone with Namora's stats, and hurt her bad.
Originally posted by Stoic
First of all I agree with your judgement in the WW vs BA scenario. WW is a better fighter, she has better weapons, and is as strong or nearly as strong a BA. She would be able to hurt him, and she would hit him far more times than he would hit her. To me fights are decided by combat expertise which should always come before pure power, but only to a point. For instance; Bruce Lee could not hope hurt the Wonder Man, let alone defeat him with his level of power. But, if he were almost as strong as Simon he would destroy him without it being a contest.Namora is not as good of a fighter as Gamora is. Not even close TBH. Exotic Alien Martial Art's are Gamora's bread and butter. She's also strong enough to hurt someone with Namora's stats, and hurt her bad.
Not to mention nerve hit her.
Originally posted by Stoic
she was able to draw blood from Thanos. I never said that she would have defeated him, while on the other hand Namor broke his hand just punching Thanos. It's also not hard to knock someone to the ground that weighs 800 lbs if you are capable of lifting 100s - 1000s of tons. Namor never floored Thanos are you kidding me? Thanos was playing with Namor the entire time, and not once did that fight favor Namor. Thanos was in full control. Thanos tried to grab Gamora, he missed when he used his eye beams. This was likely Thanos testing how much his teachings paid off to his former student. However Gamora still did better against Thanos than Namor did.You don't seem to be able to get past arguing based on power set alone. Gamora has superior combat expertise between the two of them, she also has a decent healing factor, and can take a very good hit on average. Yes they are tough, but that does not mean that they are immune to being KO'd pressure point strikes to nerve clusters would KO'd even the toughest of opponents. This does not mean that Gamora is stronger or more durable than Namora. We also don't argue solely based on Tier sets, because if we did we would be surprised and disappointed every time a weaker character clowned a stronger and more powerful one. This is something that happens all of the time in comics.l it isn't PIS, it's just that one character has the ability the defeat others above their weight class. In this case Namora isn't far above Gamora in terms of her physical stats. Don't know why it's so difficult for you to see this.
Namora only has like a handful of appearances, and you seem to be going gaga over her. Allow her some time to be fleshed out, and you will see that she will suffer upsets just like all of the other characters that have had hundreds of appearances, and that's if Marvel doesn't just kill her off, or deep six her.
Who cares if she can destroy ships? The Hulk can destroy planets, but that did not stop Captain America from KOing him. This isn't Thor, the Hulk, Blue Marvel, or Sentry that we are talking about. None of these guys fight like Gamora, I wouldn't give her the win over them, but they simply don't have her combat expertise, because they use brute force attacks, while she uses master level martial arts, and nerve strikes to bring her foes down. his is something that Namora would have to deal with. Gamora isn't going to be going for the tests of strength, she going to be parrying punches to set up her opponent up for a sneak attack. Gamora has the strength to hurt Namora without resorting to nerve strikes. With them she could paralyze Namora for brief instances. I have strong doubts that Namora would survive Angela.
- you seem to think gamora's 'skill' will cover up the difference in strength,durability etc,it won't, and namora is no slouch in skill herself
- telling me that namora only looks good because of her limited appearance dosent help your case,she has had enough appearanes to gauge her power levels against several foes.
- hulk busted a planet at wbh levels,cap never knocked out hulk with his strength alone either
- hercules and thor have had millenum of fighting skill and experience, stop overhyping gamora's skill level. Namora also pinned hercules down in wrestling too she managed to hurt poseidon as well when fighting him with hercules iirc.