ROTJ Vader/ROTJ Luke Skywalker vs. Exar Kun/Ulic Qel-Droma (sabers only)

Remember, Vader's record includes destroying a crapton of piker jedi. Typically against superior numbers. And Darth Maul in that one comic. And Starkiller(Though to be fair Vader designed him to lose to Vader). ANH Kenobi isn't a bad kill either.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Remember, Vader's record includes destroying a crapton of piker jedi. Typically against superior numbers. And Darth Maul in that one comic. And Starkiller(Though to be fair Vader designed him to lose to Vader). ANH Kenobi isn't a bad kill either.

Maul defeated him though.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Yes to the first.
Vader IMO is stronger.
Vader has the greater stamina IMO as his suit does help his oxygen intake and stamina levels.
Yes to fourth
I'd give vader the edge in lightsaber skill as he's more experienced and overall more complete
Yes to the 7th
Yes to the 8th
Vader has more styles at his command and actaually a greater hold over them with Kun having an edge in niman
Vader a battle record isn't bad either.

Exar Kun smashed through a three feet wall of Mandalorian Iron, that isn't including a rage amp either, he has equal strength.

Exar Kun would have been able to stalemate Ulic Qel-Droma for hours before exhaustion took it's toll.

Exar Kun is the most highly skilled master of Niman, is definitely the best duelist before the likes of Yoda, the era he fought in was the greatest of Jedi combat and experience in all of history. He is a top tier hybrid duelist, I see no reason why Vader should be higher.

Exar Kun has Jar'kai, saberstaff, and Niman mastery under his belt furthermore Vader's chosen form is a common one, Kun's personal Niman is entirely uniwue to himself.

He has lost about as many as he's won, he is the greatest Jedi killer certainly but that's not all that impressive when almost all of said Jedi are featless.

Maul...didn't defeat him.

As I recall, that ended with.

"What could you possibly hate enough to destroy me?"
"Myself."

Originally posted by AncientPower
Exar Kun smashed through a three feet wall of Mandalorian Iron, that isn't including a rage amp either, he has equal strength.

Exar Kun would have been able to stalemate Ulic Qel-Droma for hours before exhaustion took it's toll.

Exar Kun is the most highly skilled master of Niman, is definitely the best duelist before the likes of Yoda, the era he fought in was the greatest of Jedi combat and experience in all of history. He is a top tier hybrid duelist, I see no reason why Vader should be higher.

Exar Kun has Jar'kai, saberstaff, and Niman mastery under his belt furthermore Vader's chosen form is a common one, Kun's personal Niman is entirely uniwue to himself.

He has lost about as many as he's won, he is the greatest Jedi killer certainly but that's not all that impressive when almost all of said Jedi are featless.

Vodo and Sylvar aren't exactly better than ANH Kenobi, Luke, or hell even Galen 😬

More to the point, Vader's style as ROTJ Vader isn't just Djem So, like it was with Anakin.

As Vader, he's blended Makashi, Soresu, and Ataru into his main Djem So form.

Bumping this after I saw a quote by Tom Vetich comparing Ulic to Luke.

"Ulic is a prefiguration of Luke Skywalker. He's rash and impulsive, an excellent swordsman. He acts before he thinks and has an angry streak. It was very difficult working out the story of his turning to the dark side, because we had to do it in very few pages."

-- Tom Veitch, Co-Author of Tales of the Jedi

Anyone else?

To make it interesting

Ulic vs. Vader
Luke vs. Exar (Round 1)

Exar vs. Vader
Luke vs. Ulic (Round 2)

Originally posted by carthage
Vodo and Sylvar aren't exactly better than ANH Kenobi, Luke, or hell even Galen 😬

Excellent find Carthage.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Sylvar is not a top number on his list, regardless the point being Exar Kun never lost a battle. He was so far above everyone else, Ulic himself could only stalemate Kun before Kun's style and preferred weapon was an option.

All of those defeats happen before Vader's prime in ROTJ, he canonically became a greater duelist after Empire stikes back, he also was unparalleled in his era (unlike Exar who was equal to Ulic contrary to Gnost's assessment):

Darth Vader is the embodiment of all evil. Under the guidance of Emperor Palpatine-aka Darth Sidious- Lord Vader controls the Galactic Empire with an iron fist. He's an unparalleled lightsaber combatant and an even more capable Force wielder.
-- Star Wars: The Force Unleashed II: Prima Official Game Guide

He canonically grew in skill in Empire strikes back, and was able to stalemate Luke in much the same fashion Kun was to Ulic in Return of the Jedi. Not sure how losing to a bunch of Jedi would prove he's a lesser duelist than Exar when those showings occur when he was at his worst in terms of skill

If Ulic is an equal of (I'm guessing here) ROTJ Luke then that puts his Form V ability on par with Vader himself, Kun completely equalled him on that level to the point where if not for the spirits they would have died from exhaustion hours later.

Now take into account that Exar Kun got better after refitting his form and weapon, then we have a fairly conclusive and entirely objective argument for Kun's saber skill > Vader & Luke's saber skill.

Where is it stated he became more skilled after getting his saber staff?

His saberstaff embued his unpredictability and his form in general, his abilities when given his staff are greater, this is said a few times, my respect thread has those sources.

Kun tricked his opponents into overextending themselves during attacks, giving him an opportunity for a dealy counterstrike. By coupling these tactics with his Force abilities to predict the actions of his opponents, Kun became virtually unstoppable in combat.

The only statement I've found even remotely coming close to that is this in ILS's thread and the last statement can certainly be construed as hyperbole. Vader as of his encounter with Maul would be familiar with saberstaffs.

That would be like equating Dooku/Bane's curved hilt with a standard one. The only similarity between Maul's staff and Kun's is that they have dual blades, the comparison ends there.

Vader's saber also has a standard blade length changer, so even if Kun was changing his blade length in combat Vader can do the same.

Exar Kun's weapon is completely unique though, it doesn't have the weakness that Maul's does, it can look like a standard daber, it can switch off/on or lengthen/shorten each blade simultaneously and it can even change the intensity of the blades themselves, from solid to passable.

Furthermore Kun's style is designed around this, it is even stated that this is why Kun stomped Vodo when Vodo rejected him.

Originally posted by AncientPower
That would be like equating Dooku/Bane's curved hilt with a standard one. The only similarity between Maul's staff and Kun's is that they have dual blades, the comparison ends there.

👆

Originally posted by AncientPower
If Ulic is an equal of (I'm guessing here) ROTJ Luke then that puts his Form V ability on par with Vader himself, Kun completely equalled him on that level to the point where if not for the spirits they would have died from exhaustion hours later.

Now take into account that Exar Kun got better after refitting his form and weapon, then we have a fairly conclusive and entirely objective argument for Kun's saber skill > Vader & Luke's saber skill.

That Exar Kun was the best duelist of his era does not mean he is a superior duelist to either Vader or Luke.

Ulic has been compared to ROTJ Luke as a swordsman, ROTJ Luke mirrored Darth Vader's form perfectly, thus Ulic's own Form V mastery must be at least comparable. Exar Kun once he upgraded got even better than when he was a perfect equal for Ulic.

Kun > Vader in lightsaber skill.