Originally posted by Lord Stark
Zann Consortium reigns supreme imo. I can't think of a single other underground that wielded a fleet that wouldn't immediately retreat when an Executor-class Star Dreadnought + Supporting fleet showed up. That includes the Black Sun.
Thing is, Zann only was supreme after the fact BS and Hutts went under.
That and I'm kinda skeptical in approving of it, because for the most part it's appeared all of once...in FoC and like, nowhere else in lore.
It's mentioned in the Falcon novel but really just as a passing mention...so it seems to me it's not that big a thing.
Plus Zann got rid of the Star Dreadnought anyhow.
That and Tyber Zann was impressed with only billions of credits.
"Do you see Uri? Billions of credits, technical data horded for decades, priceless works of art. There is more wealth in these hidden vaults than even I can imagine."- Tyber Zann
Xizor and the Black Sun literally has limitless credits and power to do whatever they wished.
I mean if you wanna include the Zann Consortium go ahead, but I don't think it would be number 1.
Originally posted by ZenwolfWell Tyber also made Jabba his ***** so there is that
Thing is, Zann only was supreme after the fact BS and Hutts went under.That and I'm kinda skeptical in approving of it, because for the most part it's appeared all of once...in FoC and like, nowhere else in lore.
It's mentioned in the Falcon novel but really just as a passing mention...so it seems to me it's not that big a thing.
Plus Zann got rid of the Star Dreadnought anyhow.
That and Tyber Zann was impressed with only billions of credits.
Xizor and the Black Sun literally has limitless credits and power to do whatever they wished.
I mean if you wanna include the Zann Consortium go ahead, but I don't think it would be number 1.
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Thing is, Zann only was supreme after the fact BS and Hutts went under.
Why is that relevant? We're talking about each Underworld power in their prime aren't we? Even before that Zann was clashing with Grand Admiral Thrawn. None of the other factions would ever risk an open space battle with the Empire.
That and I'm kinda skeptical in approving of it, because for the most part it's appeared all of once...in FoC and like, nowhere else in lore.
I mean its still canon though. If you don't wanna take feats from FoC, then the Consortium has virtually no feats.
It's mentioned in the Falcon novel but really just as a passing mention...so it seems to me it's not that big a thing.
Mmmm...it was pretty big.
Plus Zann got rid of the Star Dreadnought anyhow.
With his fleet...which is impressive.
That and Tyber Zann was impressed with only billions of credits.
And a million clone troopers were enough to bring the galaxy to heel. Come on bro, everyone knows in Star Wars numbers are just a placeholder for 'stupid big'.
Xizor and the Black Sun literally has limitless credits and power to do whatever they wished.
I mean if you wanna include the Zann Consortium go ahead, but I don't think it would be number 1.
They are certainly #1 if we include them bro. Tyber Zann and Urai made Jabba their *****, defeated Grand Admiral Thrawn in a Space Battle +maintained a powerful network capable of overthrowing planetary governments.
Zann didn't best Thrawn, Thrawn left after Bossk gave him a Sith artifact which he wanted.
Also it's not like the Black Sun couldn't do the same, considering it had resources and powers which were pretty much limitless even far before it's prime pre-TPM.
Plus Xizor made Jabba his **** too.
Both at the height seem neck and neck.
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Zann didn't best Thrawn, Thrawn left after Bossk gave him a Sith artifact which he wanted.Also it's not like the Black Sun couldn't do the same, considering it had resources and powers which were pretty much limitless even far before it's prime pre-TPM.
Plus Xizor made Jabba his **** too.
Both at the height seem neck and neck.
Not...really. I don't think you understand what a big deal it is to down an Executor.
A single Mandator-class Star Dreadnought could take on 1,000 capital ships during TCWs. An Executor could likely easily take on 2-3,000 perhaps even 4. The number of vessels/ power of vessels required is ludicrous. Assaulting any core world is quite the endeavor, let alone Kuat Drive Yards, which had one of the largest defense fleets.
Sorry but that trumps hyperbolic statements about the Black Sun, who at best were nuisances to galactic governments like the Empire.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Not...really. I don't think you understand what a big deal it is to down an Executor.A single Mandator-class Star Dreadnought could take on 1,000 capital ships during TCWs. An Executor could likely easily take on 2-3,000 perhaps even 4. The number of vessels/ power of vessels required is ludicrous. Assaulting any core world is quite the endeavor, let alone Kuat Drive Yards, which had one of the largest defense fleets.
Sorry but that trumps hyperbolic statements about the Black Sun, who at best were nuisances to galactic governments like the Empire.
I didn't see any large defense fleet either fighting off Zann.
Plus you're forgetting that the Rebel Alliance was involved too.
Now he did take out a Star Dreadnought sure, but this being after he had stole the Eclipse + his own reinforcements helping to take it out.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
In no specific order:- Hutt Cartel
- Black Sun
- Exchange Syndicate
- Zann Consortium
The Black Sun already surpassed the Hutt Cartel.
Also Beni I can agree to that but military prowess isn't exactly what I'm looking at. I'm looking for what a Criminal Underworld does...which they involve themselves in illegal activities and so forth.
Any faction can have a military if big enough, that doesn't make it an Underworld faction.
A couple were big, but also comparative flashes in the pan. Shadow Collective was big but temporary, ditto Zann Consortium. The Black Sun and Hutts and even the Exchange were lasting powers.
When talking a criminal enterprise, what matters more? Lasting criminal power, or a single big grab that crumbles away to nothing?
The Hutts are a combination of criminal enterprise and one of the few areas that could be considered separate, largely out of Republic/Empire control (though I think nominally acknowledging whoever's in charge).
The Hutts seemed to have better and more total control of their territory, and have some military, but the Black Sun had a much wider reach and seemed to have enterprises throughout the galaxy, if a lot less direct force. Both did work with each other a lot.
I'm guessing Zann hit it really big with his fleet, but it drew too much attention and was likely smushed. Similar the Shadow bunch. The Exchange almost seems like a precursor to Black Sun- their time overlapped some, but I'm guessing it's just the Exchange went into decline and Black Sun took it's place.
Overall, I'd say-
1. Black Sun. Their wide reach probably means they have the largest income and influence of any.
2. Hutt Syndicate. While not as wide, they still have some fingers out there, plus a good portion of the galaxy where they control the crime more thoroughly than any other syndicate, which gives them a reliable base.
3. The Exchange. A once-rival of the Hutts and the big non-Hutt group before Black Sun, they were eventually replaced but were quite significant.
4. Shadow Collective. They didn't last long at all, but they were impressive when they did.
5. Zann Consortium. Ditto.
Then at 6, I'll add one, the Crucible. A slave-trading and pit-fighting organization originally created by the Sith to be self-perpetuating and turn refugees into soldiers for the sith, they remained fairly hidden and weren't as wide-ranging, but they were secretive, dangerous, and conducted a criminal enterprise for a very long time.