Avengers in Helms Deep.

Aragorn, Gimly and Legolas are replaced by Cap, Widow and Hawkeye.

Can these three avengers accomplish the same feats accomplished by the LoTR squad through the three chapters? Standard piercing arrows for hawkeye, no electric for widow though she gets a couple knives. they lose their armor from avengers it is replaced by LoTR chainmail/mythril or w/e. How fare they?

Hawkeye might have the accuracy over medium range to match Legolas but he doesn't have the eyesight over long range nor does he have anywhere near the strength and agility.

Cap is obviously superior to Aragorn in strength, speed, skill and tactical awareness. BW is obviously totally different from Gimli but would likely do as well or better.

Cant remember if there were any moments where Legolas' superior skills would have made them won though so I'll go with yes, they can hold out

I can't imagine the battle going much different for the Avengers than it did for the Fellowship of Three. The two deciding moments of the battle were the cavalry charge and the arrival of Gandalf, which both had little to do with the three warriors. Still, I wonder if the defenders would have held out long enough without Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas. Maybe, maybe not.

Of course, maybe Hawkeye would have stopped the berserker Uruk-Hai from reaching the bomb with his torch, and the wall never would have gotten blown up.

I could totally see Hawkeye hitting the Berserker Uruk with an exploding arrow, causing him to blow up in his own ranks.

Well OP does state that Hawkeye only gets basic arrows, no trick arrows.

I don't see Hawkeye being able to take down that mumakil. I also don't see him killing as many opponents as Legolas. But that shouldn't make too much of a difference in overall outcome.

I think the major question is, will Hawkeye and Black Widow survive all 3 movies? They're both pretty well trained in h2h, firearms and some knife/baton fighting from what we've seen. Will they be able to easily use swords and shields against fullly armed Orcs?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Well OP does state that Hawkeye only gets basic arrows, no trick arrows.

I don't see Hawkeye being able to take down that mumakil. I also don't see him killing as many opponents as Legolas. But that shouldn't make too much of a difference in overall outcome.

I think the major question is, will Hawkeye and Black Widow survive all 3 movies? They're both pretty well trained in h2h, firearms and some knife/baton fighting from what we've seen. Will they be able to easily use swords and shields against fullly armed Orcs?

Honestly the avengers team has gone up against worse then anything the Fellowship did.

Captain America alone is a game changer in most of the scenarios.

Also does Cap have his shield?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Well OP does state that Hawkeye only gets basic arrows, no trick arrows.

Well even with normal arrows, he could still just hit the explosive on his back. It'd blow up just the same.

There was no explosive on his back. The wall was destroyed by mines placed in the culvert

Originally posted by Newjak
Considering they were able to take on fully armored Chitarui and Ultron bots yeah I think they will be fine.

Honestly the avengers team has gone up against worse then anything the Fellowship did.

Captain America alone is a game changer in most of the scenarios.

Also does Cap have his shield?

Chitauri weren't really hand to hand fighters. THe shot laser rifles. Being from the 21st century I'm assuming Hawkeye and BW are more exposed to opponents with firearms. Not saying they'll do badly against Orcs, but it's something out of the norm for them. Plus if they do wear armor, how will that affect their movements?

They should be able to do it. The only real big thing the Fellowship did was hold off the Uruks from the gate while it was being repaired and Cap should easily be able to do that.

It's also possible that Hawkeye wouldn't fall to PIS and he does take out the berserker with the torch.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
There was no explosive on his back. The wall was destroyed by mines placed in the culvert

He's been playing the game too much me thinks.

As for the thread, the trio here are prolly physically superior to anyone in the Fellowship (except maybe Legolas, Legolas was pretty bullshit), so they should do fairly well against the Uruk-Hai

He's been playing the game too much me thinks.

Two Towers?

Originally posted by ares834
They should be able to do it. The only real big thing the Fellowship did was hold off the Uruks from the gate while it was being repaired and Cap should easily be able to do that.

It's also possible that Hawkeye wouldn't fall to PIS and he does take out the berserker with the torch.

Well when an archer of Legolas's caliber misses, I'm assuming it was a difficult shot. So I can't give Hawkeye the benefit of the doubt that he'll just not miss.

In any case, although I consider both BW and Hawkeye as more skilled than Gimli, I don't see them as quite as tough. I also don't consider them on Legolas's level of melee ability. Which is why I'm doubtful if they can survive the wars with medieval weapons. Cap will breeze through it with ease.

But yeah I guess if normal townsfolk were hitting Orcs with pans and all... oh wait, that was the hobbit movies.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Well when an archer of Legolas's caliber misses, I'm assuming it was a difficult shot. So I can't give Hawkeye the benefit of the doubt that he'll just not miss.

Legolas seemed to choke due to PIS. The shot didn't seem that hard.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Two Towers?

Yep. It has Uruks with explosives on their backs which blow when shot with an arrow.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Chitauri weren't really hand to hand fighters. THe shot laser rifles. Being from the 21st century I'm assuming Hawkeye and BW are more exposed to opponents with firearms. Not saying they'll do badly against Orcs, but it's something out of the norm for them. Plus if they do wear armor, how will that affect their movements?

Also BW and Hawkeye have been in plenty of pure H2H combat. BW especially she even used H2H weapons in AoU.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Well when an archer of Legolas's caliber misses, I'm assuming it was a difficult shot. So I can't give Hawkeye the benefit of the doubt that he'll just not miss.

In any case, although I consider both BW and Hawkeye as more skilled than Gimli, I don't see them as quite as tough. I also don't consider them on Legolas's level of melee ability. Which is why I'm doubtful if they can survive the wars with medieval weapons. Cap will breeze through it with ease.

But yeah I guess if normal townsfolk were hitting Orcs with pans and all... oh wait, that was the hobbit movies.

Also at this point Hawkeye maybe a better archer than Legolas. Feat wise I can not think of anything Legolas has done that compares to Hawkeyes no look Chitauri shot, or his multi-robot kill shot in AoU. Or his shoot Loki in ht eye shot while on a speeding object.

Originally posted by Newjak
The Chitauri and Ultron bots engaged them in H2H and they are objectively better and more dangerous than the Orcs were. More dangerous weapons, better armored, and in the case of Ultron Bots significantly more powerful/stronger.

Also BW and Hawkeye have been in plenty of pure H2H combat. BW especially she even used H2H weapons in AoU.

I don't know if I would say Legolas is better in H2H then BW. BW had some ridiculous feats against tougher opponents.

Also at this point Hawkeye maybe a better archer than Legolas. Feat wise I can not think of anything Legolas has done that compares to Hawkeyes no look Chitauri shot, or his multi-robot kill shot in AoU. Or his shoot Loki in ht eye shot while on a speeding object.

Neither BW or Hawkeye have been in wars that lasted as long as the ones in LOTR. They fought the Chitauri and AOU bots for what seems like a few mins, maybe max of an hour. The LOTR battles could last a day.

I didn't say Legolas was better in h2h, I said he was better in melee. Guess what I meant was weapons fighting in close quarters combat. Neither BW nor Hawkeye has the same feats Legolas has fighting with knives or swords.

Hawkeye might very well be a better archer than Legolas at least in terms of aim, but he doesn't have the agility or power of Legolas and a lot of Legolas's more impressive feats where him doing archery while on the move (or skateboarding on a shield or standing atop barrels in water). These are the things I don't think Hawkeye can duplicate. Shooting enemies while you're standing up, sure. Shooting enemies through the jungle or in the middle of a battle, yeah Hawkeye can do that, just don't think he can do it as well as Legolas.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Neither BW or Hawkeye have been in wars that lasted as long as the ones in LOTR. They fought the Chitauri and AOU bots for what seems like a few mins, maybe max of an hour. The LOTR battles could last a day.

I didn't say Legolas was better in h2h, I said he was better in melee. Guess what I meant was weapons fighting in close quarters combat. Neither BW nor Hawkeye has the same feats Legolas has fighting with knives or swords.

Hawkeye might very well be a better archer than Legolas at least in terms of aim, but he doesn't have the agility or power of Legolas and a lot of Legolas's more impressive feats where him doing archery while on the move (or skateboarding on a shield or standing atop barrels in water). These are the things I don't think Hawkeye can duplicate. Shooting enemies while you're standing up, sure. Shooting enemies through the jungle or in the middle of a battle, yeah Hawkeye can do that, just don't think he can do it as well as Legolas.

And my comment about Hawkeye being a better archer was in terms of taking down the suicide charger which Legolas failed to do.

Also I don't think the length of time of the fighting is going to be an issue. After all you do have Captain America the ultimate soldier in command. If anyone is going to be able to keep the troops prepared to fight for days/weeks it will be that guy.

Originally posted by Newjak
Except BW has used melee weapons as well like her electric knives in AoU and she was using them effectively.

And my comment about Hawkeye being a better archer was in terms of taking down the suicide charger which Legolas failed to do.

Also I don't think the length of time of the fighting is going to be an issue. After all you do have Captain America the ultimate soldier in command. If anyone is going to be able to keep the troops prepared to fight for days/weeks it will be that guy.

Well I didn't say BW doesn't use melee weapons, just that she doesn't use them as well as Legolas. I mean c'mon, she doesn't have quite as many nor as good feats as Legolas has. Do you really think BW is better with her knives and sticks than Legolas is with his knives and swords?

Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli were stated to have run continuously for a few days (3 days IIRC). BW and Hawkeye don't have endurance feats like that, so length of fighting definitely is going to a be an issue. We know that Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli have ungodly stamina. We know Cap probably does too. Not so with Hawkeye and BW.

We don't need to discuss Cap as we probably all agree he can easily fill in Aragorn's shoes (I think he's worth at least 3 Aragorn's).

This battle will go very differently because(even though I was thinking of the game), Hawkeye does shoot the berserk Uruk and keep him from blowing up the wall. He's far too accurate against far faster moving things to miss a headshot.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Well I didn't say BW doesn't use melee weapons, just that she doesn't use them as well as Legolas. I mean c'mon, she doesn't have quite as many nor as good feats as Legolas has. Do you really think BW is better with her knives and sticks than Legolas is with his knives and swords?

Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli were stated to have run continuously for a few days (3 days IIRC). BW and Hawkeye don't have endurance feats like that, so length of fighting definitely is going to a be an issue. We know that Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli have ungodly stamina. We know Cap probably does too. Not so with Hawkeye and BW.

We don't need to discuss Cap as we probably all agree he can easily fill in Aragorn's shoes (I think he's worth at least 3 Aragorn's).

BW and Hawkeye are highly trained warriors that have engaged in long campaigns before. Heck AoU it was stated that before they took down the last Hydra base they had been fighting for sometime working their way through Hydra.

I don't think a few days of fighting will diminish them that badly.