Originally posted by abhilegendyou have to assume that is what the empty bubble was first trying to convey. It could also be interpreted as he was stunned/koed and he was coming to when he fell back into earth.
So you ignore the actual comic contradicting it as Hulk couldn't talk into space and later he could talk into atmosphere but citing random example which have no relevance to the actual comic?facepalm
you have to assume....that's the biggest problem with your stance right there.
and...people talk while ko'd...? 😕 that...seems like a crazy supposition to make to me.
it seems a lot more reasonable to say that the empty bubble is there because, like any bubble, it was intended to show he was TALKING. the fact that it was empty just represents a lack of sound--makes sense in space. and, it's a lot easier to understand than saying it was shown to show he was....knocked out? 😑 thing with your stance is, you have to explain away the reason for the bubble BEING there in the first place. surely if he were ko'd it would be simpler to just...not have a bubble at all. any other instances, in any comic ever, where a speech bubble was drawn to show someone WAS ko'd? seems, very very odd to me and requires far too many mental gymnastics to justify. speech bubble=not ko'd. doesn't seem contestable imo.
also, didn't the worthy lose their glowing power when they were ko'd or taken out? i thought so, but, whatever. it's a pretty silly thing that this much detailed argumentation needs to be put into something so trivial. i'm afraid from my pov this is about as clear as anything can get.
Originally posted by leonidasThat bit of info was still written by the same writer though(Fraction). Consequently it was carried over in Hulk vs Drac by a different team. The point is he would have still have been able to speak going by the technical route you are taking.
that last bit of info wasn't acknowledged until later though, so space could easily have been the intent. or the person in the later book was just wrong... and even at the very edge, sound would just BARELY be able to carry--if it could at all.you're still reaching too far imo. the simplest explanation is usually the best one--there was a speech bubble. ergo, he was trying to talk or at least make some sound. that's...why they are used. to infer anything else from it just seems....pointless. to try and say a speech bubble was used just to try and show he was...coming to or whatever seems kinda ridiculous to me. no need for mental gymnastics here, at all, imo. but like i said, you're a big boy. i just think your stance (and anyone else who shares it) is pretty unsupportable. clearly not changing your mind though, so, shake hands and agree to disagree.
How is this a reach? Wouldn't it have been a simpler explanation to accept he was able to speak like how many writers take that same simpler route to circumvent the vacuum of space? And all this assuming he was in a vacuum (which he wasn't since he only reached the stratosphere where sound travels faster by the way). And I'm not even reinforcing the fact that he was also at this point an Asgardian empowered being that can afford such trivial things in the grand scheme of storytelling.
And the only reason I even brought up the stratosphere was to explain why he should still be able to speak if we go the technical route.
And how is it mental gymnastics to convey that empty speech bubbles convey "coming to or coming around"? That is not even remotely hard to not fathom. Pretty sure it has been used many times to convey at the very least a stunned character after receiving a big wallop. We also see the empty speech bubble used in a panel where his body was in a laid out and relaxed position with seemingly eyes closed. That as opposed to his fearful facial expression and action filled body language in the next couple of panels where he is uttering words in exclamation. It just doesn't mix.
I understand what your stance as well as others who share your view, but I just think the facts and what was shown on panel sway more to another one.
Originally posted by carver9
Serpent had empty speech bubbles more than once in Fear Itself. Don't think anyone would assume he was koed.
He wasn't just on the receiving end of a hellacious wallop that punted him from terra firma to the stratosphere.
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Originally posted by celeyhyga17
No because he was standing up in the middle of a speech.He wasn't just on the receiving end of a hellacious wallop that punted him from terra firma to the stratosphere.
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Hulk was in space though so we know he couldn't stand up. No sign of him being able to fly either, so, I don't get what you mean.
Originally posted by leonidasIn the world of comics you are assuming no matter what because it ends up depending upon the writer/artist as to what the scene was supposed to mean. Especially when dealing with physics.
you have to assume....that's the biggest problem with your stance right there.and...people talk while ko'd...? 😕 that...seems like a crazy supposition to make to me.
it seems a lot more reasonable to say that the empty bubble is there because, like any bubble, it was intended to show he was TALKING. the fact that it was empty just represents a lack of sound--makes sense in space. and, it's a lot easier to understand than saying it was shown to show he was....knocked out? 😑 thing with your stance is, you have to explain away the reason for the bubble BEING there in the first place. surely if he were ko'd it would be simpler to just...not have a bubble at all. any other instances, in any comic ever, where a speech bubble was drawn to show someone WAS ko'd? seems, very very odd to me and requires far too many mental gymnastics to justify. speech bubble=not ko'd. doesn't seem contestable imo.
also, didn't the worthy lose their glowing power when they were ko'd or taken out? i thought so, but, whatever. it's a pretty silly thing that this much detailed argumentation needs to be put into something so trivial. i'm afraid from my pov this is about as clear as anything can get.
Also yes talking while KOed is a thing Leo. It's no different than when you talk while asleep. I mean during KOes you can still move/convulse, your eyes can be open. I've seen people try to stand up and fall back down asleep after being KOed. KO does not mean motionless or brain dead. Also most KOes don't last very long most people think. Few minutes at most anymore then that and it's brain damage most likely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVNhVFNWtFc
Here is a video. You see KOed people that are moving, trying to mouth things. Heck Hulk definitely looks laid out in that panel.
Originally posted by Newjak
you have to assume that is what the empty bubble was first trying to convey. It could also be interpreted as he was stunned/koed and he was coming to when he fell back into earth.
No it can not be. When Thor hits Nul, the hammer is dislodged from Nul's hand. Nul attemts to grab for it, and the next thing we see is the hammer in Nul's hand as he drifts through space. We see that he is holding his hammer in a very controlled fashion, and talking in space. The reason that the speech bubble is blank, is because sound does not travel through space. In the next panel he continues to speak, but the only reason that we see words is because he re-enters the atmosphere. I don't know why something that was clearly seen on panel is so hard to understamd? When was Nul KO'd? First begin with explaining the dislodged hammer, and Nul's attempts of recapturing it, then explain him having the hammer, and then explain when he was KO'd. You won't be able to, because if Nul was reaching for the hammer after being hit, what time did he have to be KO'd?
Let's go over the evidence again.
1 Thor hits Nul.
2. The hammer is dislodged from Nul's hand.
3. Nul attempts to recapture the dislodged hammer.
4. Nul is in space drifiting because he can not fly, or does not know how to use the hammer to that extent yet, but he clearly has perfect control of the hammer, which is firmly gripped by him.
5. Nul is floating above the atmosphere, and is speaking but no sound comes out, because sound does not travel in space.
6. Upon re-entry, Nul, is still speaking but becomes audible, due to having pierced the atmosphere again.
Number 3 does not make any sense because if Nul was KO'd the hammer would not have been in his hand, but back on Earth where it was dislodged from his hand after the hit. When was Nul KO'd? Before the hit? We know that he couldn't have gotten the hammer or even attempted to recover the dislodged hammer, if he was KO'd. Nul was simply BFR'd. No KO ever occurred. If Thor KO'd Nul he would not have had the hammer in his hand.
Originally posted by leonidas
i'd be willing to wager a full life time ban on the entire INTERNET, not just this site, that the empty speech bubble was intended to get across the idea that sound doesn't travel in space. some authors take that kind of thing more seriously than others. there are scans of thor having to wear a mask in outer space. there have DEFINITELY been times where sound has clearly NOT traveled in space. the bubble is there though, obviously for a reason. that fact alone makes it...illogical to assume he was in any way at all ko'd. like i said, it seems inarguable to me, but this discussion was old years ago.i'm certainly not calling you a fanboy celey (i know you're far from that), but i confess to not being able to understand how you think you (or anyone) can support the idea that he was ko'd in that panel--certainly not based on the reasons you've given.
I agree with you/Carver/Stoic, Nul was not KOed. He was trying to speak in a vacuum.
Originally posted by One Big Mob
Fraction wrote a whole space battle where everyone was speaking in space around the same time. Surfer, Thor, Galactus, Odin, Sif, etc
Thor and the rest of the characters that you just mentioned are either cosmic, or divine characters. They have always had the ability to speak in space.
Lol...let's also not forget the part where Nul allows Thor to pound on him, a blood lusted Thor, that is trying to kill Nul (die, you DIE ), and it does nothing. Hell, Thor fatigues himself wailing on Hulk and Hulk is on his feet like nothing happened, staring at Thor. Even allows Thor to get up.
Everything; EVERYTHING - goes against Nul being koed. Especially when we have panels showing Thor being unable to even harm Nul...an all out bloodlusted Thor.
Originally posted by StoicPlease show me where Nul did not have the hammer when he was hit into space? I'm trying to find a scan of it but am unable to.
No it can not be. When Thor hits Nul, the hammer is dislodged from Nul's hand. Nul attemts to grab for it, and the next thing we see is the hammer in Nul's hand as he drifts through space. We see that he is holding his hammer in a very controlled fashion, and talking in space. The reason that the speech bubble is blank, is because sound does not travel through space. In the next panel he continues to speak, but the only reason that we see words is because he re-enters the atmosphere. I don't know why something that was clearly seen on panel is so hard to understamd? When was Nul KO'd? First begin with explaining the dislodged hammer, and Nul's attempts of recapturing it, then explain him having the hammer, and then explain when he was KO'd. You won't be able to, because if Nul was reaching for the hammer after being hit, what time did he have to be KO'd?Let's go over the evidence again.
1 Thor hits Nul.
2. The hammer is dislodged from Nul's hand.
3. Nul attempts to recapture the dislodged hammer.
4. Nul is in space drifiting because he can not fly, or does not know how to use the hammer to that extent yet, but he clearly has perfect control of the hammer, which is firmly gripped by him.
5. Nul is floating above the atmosphere, and is speaking but no sound comes out, because sound does not travel in space.
6. Upon re-entry, Nul, is still speaking but becomes audible, due to having pierced the atmosphere again.Number 3 does not make any sense because if Nul was KO'd the hammer would not have been in his hand, but back on Earth where it was dislodged from his hand after the hit. When was Nul KO'd? Before the hit? We know that he couldn't have gotten the hammer or even attempted to recover the dislodged hammer, if he was KO'd. Nul was simply BFR'd. No KO ever occurred. If Thor KO'd Nul he would not have had the hammer in his hand.