Originally posted by Ushgarak
Why do you dismiss paper money on the idea that its value is theoretical yet value gold despite its value also being theoretical? Gold is not a practical good- it doesn't do anything unless you work in specific parts of the electronics industry.The vast majority of gold's value comes from a. its history and b. that it is shiny. It is a currency in of itself, just as psychological as paper currency.
I think the problem with your post is that you state that gold is just as worthless as paper money and then state an exact reason why it is not worthless at all, and, in fact, has an extremely high utilitarian value (electronics).
This is part of why rare earth metals are so valuable.
But, if we are to wax philosophical with our economics, any value placed on anything is arbitrary and artificial because they are all human constructs.
As far as which is more valuable to humans from a pragmatic sense? Both have reasons for being more valuable.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I think the problem with your post is that you state that gold is just as worthless as paper money and then state an exact reason why it is not worthless at all, and, in fact, has an extremely high utilitarian value (electronics).This is part of why rare earth metals are so valuable.
But, if we are to wax philosophical with our economics, any value placed on anything is arbitrary and artificial because they are all human constructs.
As far as which is more valuable to humans from a pragmatic sense? Both have reasons for being more valuable.
That's a very ill-thought out post. Was gold was valuable a thousand years ago for that reason? or 100? Or during any period where the gold standard was relevant, as TI is referring to? What do you think the vast majority of gold is used for? If you answer industry, you're wrong.
The amount of gold's value related to its industrial use is small. The amount related to its psychological value is massive.
This is nothing to do with waxing philosophical- it's just basic logic.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
That's a very ill-thought out post. Was gold was valuable a thousand years ago for that reason? or 100? Or during any period where the gold standard was relevant, as TI is referring to? What do you think the vast majority of gold is used for? If you answer industry, you're wrong.The amount of gold's value related to its industrial use is small. The amount related to its psychological value is [b]massive
.This is nothing to do with waxing philosophical- it's just basic logic. [/B]
Your spinning the topic of conversation to suit your argument and talk about irrelevant issues. We not talking about 1000's of years ago. Gold and silver are US legal tender and can be used to buy and sell.
The point was the currency he was selling was with 1000% more then the price he was offering. And that people would choose dollars over Gold Coins which are legal tender In the USA.
Originally posted by Surtur
Why not just somehow create golden paper and keep everyone happy?
This actually gets down to the reason gold stopped being used as a currency- once upon a time, its rarity was part of the reason for having it as a currency as rulers could control its source.
But in the long-term with rising populations, there's just not enough gold around to use as convenient currency; coinage became increasingly debased until people realised "actually, what's the point of using gold in coinage at all?"
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Your spinning the topic of conversation to suit your argument and talk about irrelevant issues. We not talking about 1000's of years ago. Gold and silver are US legal tender and can be used to by and sell.The point was the currency he was selling was with 1000% more then the price he was offering. And that people would choose dollars over Gold Coins which are legal tender In the USA.
From your OP:
"These two videos show how people have lost the idea that metal is worth more then worthless paper"
I was replying to your contention that paper is worthless on the idea that gold is effectively worthless by the same argument- which is to say, that argument is nonsense.
I would appreciate it if you did not effectively lie about the topic like that just because I've punctured your logic.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Here's the problem with the video: the setup just seems like a scam. And standing outside of a jewelry shop is no good. He could be part of that shop, partaking in a scam with that shop. Even if they went into that shop to verify that the metal was pure, the shop could be in on the scam.
I mean it actually makes more sense to refuse the offer if you know the "true" value of it(like you oh so enlightened, superior few /sarcasm). Who the **** is going to sell 160$ worth of silver for 10$? It would sound like a scam to any reasonable person.
It was an off-topic question and my avoidance of it relates to how much importance I give to it.
Meanwhile, the rest of what I say stands- you clearly have no answer to the counter-point I raised. Incidentally, 'gold is worth more than dollars' is an entirely nonsensical statement. How much gold and how many dollars? It's an intrinsically broken thing to say.
Originally posted by StyleTime
You hit the nail on the head. The rejections seemed less due to ignorance and more due to the fact that some random stranger is selling it.I mean it actually makes more sense to refuse the offer if you know the "true" value of it(like you oh so enlightened, superior few /sarcasm). Who the **** is going to sell 160$ worth of silver for 10$? It would sound like a scam to any reasonable person.
The problem isn't what he was selling of for, it was the ignorance to what gold and silver is worth to a current dollar.
If he was selling a 50" TV on the street for $25 somone would have bought it. But gold and silver that is minted by the U.S. Government. No they would not.
The idea is they are removed from any thought of free thinking.
Also your line of they buying it from strangers is irrelevant. Any place you go and buy things, is usually from a stranger. If a street car pulls up and you buy street tacos from. Guess what you just bought from stranger. Multiple that everywhere you go. You bought gas from a person this week you never met that prolly cam from a guy in the Middle East you never met.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
It was an off-topic question and my avoidance of it relates to how much importance I give to it.Meanwhile, the rest of what I say stands- you clearly have no answer to the counter-point I raised. Incidentally, 'gold is worth more than dollars' is an entirely nonsensical statement. How much gold and how many dollars? It's an intrinsically broken thing to say.
If it's not important to you to respond to me, it's not important for me to respond to you. Goes both ways.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Then problem isn't what he was selling of for, it was the ignorance to what gold and silver is worth to a current dollar.If he was selling a 50" TV on the street for $25 somone would have bought it. But gold and silver that is minted by the U.S. Government. No they would not.
The idea is they are removed from any thought of free thinking.
I doubt it. Just like the silver, people would assume something is wrong with it.
It was poorly executed though, so it fails in that regard.
Originally posted by StyleTime
No, it looks like a scam. Why would someone sell 160$ for 10$? Anyone would think that was fishy, and it doesn't necessarily reveal their knowledge of precious metal exchange values.I doubt it. Just like the silver, people would assume something is wrong with it.
It was poorly executed though, so it fails in that regard.
I edited.
Also you think those people would have bought it if it had been $160 when hey couldn't spend .99 cents!!!!?? Hahaha
He was selling that bar of silver for .99 cents. You clearly didn't watch the video.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Also your line of they buying it from strangers is irrelevant. Any place you go and buy things, is usually from a stranger. If a street car pulls up and you buy street tacos from. Guess what you just bought from stranger. Multiple that everywhere you go. You bought gas from a person this week you never met that prolly cam from a guy in the Middle East you never met.
Let's keep the situations similar here. Were the street taco vendor selling a single, 5 cent taco no on would buy it. Someone on the street selling a filled gas container for 5$ would be similarly denied.
There's just too many red flags.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I edited.Also you think those people would have bought it if it had been $160 when hey couldn't spend .99 cents!!!!?? Hahaha
He was selling that bar of silver for .99 cents. You clearly didn't watch the video.
If you want to discuss the value of precious metals feel free, but let's not pretend this "experiment" was fair.
Originally posted by Bardock42
I have the same issue that Ush raised with gold as a currency, that it is in essence just another form of fiat currency. There is some value of it as a resource, but that's not related to its current price (or the price during the collapse a couple years ago).
Doesn't matter. Gold and silver will always be worth more then paper.
You can do many more things with gold and silver then you can with a dollar.