Supreme Court Rules Same-Sex Marriage a Right (5-4)

MSNBC is a left leaning news network. Fox News is a propaganda machine with no desire for journalistic integrity.

At any rate, there was heavy, active opposition to marriage equality almost completely from conservatives, and it will likely continue. Obama, while only being a small part, did support marriage equality, and it is very unlikely that the same would have happened under a conservative president.

We shouldn't whitewash history and absolve conservatives of this injustice perpetrated by them.

Originally posted by psmith81992
You're...Kidding right? They're exactly the same thing on different sides.

Yes, it would have more likely happened under a Democrat than a Republican, that's not debatable.

You're right, we didn't whitewash the historical injustices committed by liberals, so I'm not suggesting we do that.

So we are agreed, except on the MSNBC thing. Conservatives fought tooth and nail to stop gay couples from being able to marry, Obama should get credit for helping...2 out of 3 ain't bad, especially considering your initial post.

I still maintain my initial point which is that most conservatives do not care about same sex marriage. While conservatives make up the bulk of the opposition, that doesn't indicate a majority. We care more about the first two amendments, economic stability, our troops, etc. The same sex marriage issue may have been important years ago but now it's sort of "meh".

Originally posted by psmith81992
I still maintain my initial point which is that most conservatives do not care about same sex marriage. While conservatives make up the bulk of the opposition, that doesn't indicate a majority. We care more about the first two amendments, economic stability, our troops, etc. The same sex marriage issue may have been important years ago but now it's sort of "meh".

There's obviously been some movement there, but conservatives have still come out in huge numbers to vote against gay marriage, wherever a vote was possible. Your claim of conservative apathy on the topic just doesn't ring true. It's a big deal to a lot of conservatives, and they will organise and vote against it.

Look, you seem like one of the good conservatives, but a large part of the Republican party and the conservative movements are not just people who think these conservative ideals are good, they are fundamentalists that want to uphold oppressive traditions against minorities (LGBT, Blacks, Immigrants and also women, although not a minority)

There's obviously been some movement there, but conservatives have still come out in huge numbers to vote against gay marriage, wherever a vote was possible. Your claim of conservative apathy on the topic just doesn't ring true. It's a big deal to a lot of conservatives, and they will organise and vote against it.

Originally posted by psmith81992
That may be so but I don't think it's a big deal to the [b]majority of conservatives. I think the left needs a good guy/bad guy scenario here. I mean "love overcomes hate" for instance? Really? I didn't know that there's only love and hate and nothing in between. I wasn't aware of the fact that if I don't support gay marriage, I "hate". It's where the "all emotion no logic" card comes into play. [/B]

"love overcomes hate and there was also a lot of apathy on the sidelines, not really on either side, which I suppose is not really helpful but also not as harmful as the hate but we should really mention it" just doesn't have quite the same ring though, does it?

And there is a lot of hatred on the conservative side that had to be overcome. Whether that's 49% of conservatives or 51%...I don't know, it's not that important I suppose, it's a sizeable chunk of conservatives though, enough to have hindered progress significantly for years.

"love overcomes hate and there was also a lot of apathy on the sidelines, not really on either side, which I suppose is not really helpful but also not as harmful as the hate but we should really mention it" just doesn't have quite the same ring though, does it?

And when you say "progress", do you actually mean progress or do you equate any kind of change with progress?

The central issue wasn't apathy though. The central issue was hatred, and perhaps fear and ignorance. The apathy didn't help. But there were huge groups of people actively trying to stop gay couples from being able to marry.

I mean progress. I view people that have been oppressed and persecuted finally getting the same rights that the majority of the country enjoyed progress.

The central issue wasn't apathy though. The central issue was hatred, and perhaps fear and ignorance. The apathy didn't help. But there were huge groups of people actively trying to stop gay couples from being able to marry.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Which I will contend was a MINORITY.
I don't want to watch two dudes making out. Does that make me ignorant or full of hate? No, it's just not for me. If I don't support same sex marriage, does that make me a bigot, or ignorant? Or just someone who believes his concept of marriage involves one man and one woman (hypothetical here)? But advocates of same sex marriage like to reach and these are the types of conclusions they come up with.

It was sizable enough to excessively slow the adoption of marriage equality.

Not wanting to watch two guys making out doesn't make you full of hate (lots of people don't want to watch other people make out regardless of their gender).
Not supporting same sex marriage does make you ignorant, imo.
Someone who believes the concept of marriage involves one man and a woman is probably a bigot, especially when we are talking about government sanctioned marriages, which are basically legal contracts and have nothing to do with ones religious or spiritual stance.

Not supporting same sex marriage does make you ignorant, imo.

Someone who believes the concept of marriage involves one man and a woman is probably a bigot, especially when we are talking about government sanctioned marriages, which are basically legal contracts and have nothing to do with ones religious or spiritual stance.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/26/opinions/connelly-same-sex-marriage-ruling/index.html
I also found this piece quite interesting, especially coming from CNN of all places.

Originally posted by psmith81992
Which I will contend was a MINORITY.

It was a major campaign stance of the conservative party.

Heck, support nationwide only very recently passed 50%, and that's clumped away from one end of things. Log Cabin Republicans are the minority.

I don't want to watch two dudes making out. Does that make me ignorant or full of hate? No, it's just not for me.

Right. Just as it's ok to not like watching anyone kiss.

If I don't support same sex marriage, does that make me a bigot, or ignorant?

Eh, maybe a bit. After all, you're denying people something you have access to, the right to marry your loved one.

Which isn't some minor thing, that is a major factor in people's lives.

It's one thing to say, "I don't like something, but my likes don't affect their rights," and quite another to say, "I don't like something, so I'll support opposition to their rights."

The latter really isn't a good stance.

You're...Kidding right? They're exactly the same thing on different sides.

While MSNBC is definitely Dem-leaning, to my knowledge they've never been handed talking points directly from the party or been involved in astroturfing a political movement- Hannity at Fox was very active in pushing the tea party early on.

While they're as close to mirrors as you can find, they still aren't exactly equivalent and one's taken action the other hasn't.

This is awesome news! Now homosexuals will have to deal with the legal bullshit that comes with marriage too.

It was a major campaign stance of the conservative party.

Heck, support nationwide only very recently passed 50%, and that's clumped away from one end of things. Log Cabin Republicans are the minority.

Eh, maybe a bit. After all, you're denying people something you have access to, the right to marry your loved one.

Originally posted by psmith81992
I don't think there are any real polls to accurately reflect this.

Gallup did extensive polling

No, opposing it would maybe make me a bigot or at least intolerant.

Oh, just not-supporting it as opposed to opposing it... alright, yea, then I'll correct myself, my bad. Kinda apathetic maybe, but that's not the same thing as bigotry.

Interesting.

Oh, and I missed an even newer poll, showing the continuing shift:
From May this year

And a bit on how it factors in to voting too:

It's interesting how the pro-side went from 'candidates don't have to share' to 'you know, they do,' probably in large part because in the earlier years you couldn't find a candidate who would in most places.

While similarly, the anti-gay marriage side has also grown more insistent that their candidates share their views, probably as it became more apparent that things really were changing.

Apparently some states have decided that if gays can get married, then they'll just stop all marriages. Lol.

Divorce law is about to bank.

Originally posted by Digi
I'd remove government from marriage entirely if it were up to me. But I also realize the impracticality of that stance in our current system. As such, this is great news.

I see this thread has been merged, which is the only reason I came here. As a mod, I try to be neutral and avoid taking a side in these threads. Mainly because KMC is an escape where I don't have be a serious adult. dur Most of the people who know me well already realize my political leanings. I'd consider myself a fiscal and Constitutional conservative and a social libertarian. I disclose this only for context of my post below.

This ruling from the Supreme Court, and recent prior rulings, concerns me. In 1 week the SC has rewritten laws and legislated laws. This is starling to me because the USA is a democratic republic. We elect people to Congress who are supposed to enact laws which reflect the will of the people. The SC justices are neither elected nor legislators.

I would rather not have the Federal Government involved in any way with marriage, and most aspects of American lives. I fear this overreach will continue. The Constitution is made of liberties for the American people. Every time the Feds overreach their authority, our (American) liberties are eroded.

I know many of you applaud this ruling, and believe it is just. I would like you all to consider possible future ramifications of overreach by the Federal Government. Because right now it doesn't appear that we have 3 co-equal branches of government. And believe me, I assign a lot of blame to the Republican led Congress.

Now, let's get real. Everybody in the USA should elect me supreme ruler. For a safe and prosperous future. Join me!

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
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