Darth Malak vs Darth Bane

1. That's not really beyond Malak.

2. The Orbalisks provide an inherent advantage due to the pain they cause.

3. That just indicates his technical mastery of multiple forms, which I don't deny is in excess of Malak's. However, his actual skill feats aren't in excess of Malak's at all.

4. I'm pretty sure the Sorcery only concealed it from being easily noticed or something - regardless, it's a spell from millennia ago, and Nadd is kind of dead as of RoT, to be fair.

5. Yeah, if you consider the extremity of the nexus and the fact that Bane charged up on the nexus, then it hardly outclasses Malak's Stasis/TK feats aboard the Leviathan, lol.

6. The Star Forge supposedly corrupted the entire Rakatan civilization, IIRC, which means it's indeed able to surpass Kaan's mental corruption feats, especially since it outright corrupted the Rakatans, as opposed to Kaan merely compelling his fellow Sith (IIRC, there were a few other exceptions beyond just Bane, too).

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't care, the feat it miles above Malak. The supposed nexus amp does nothing to dispute Bane's utter superiority..

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also no, it wasn't a domino effect. .

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. That's not really beyond Malak.

2. The Orbalisks provide an inherent advantage due to the pain they cause.

3. That just indicates his technical mastery of multiple forms, which I don't deny is in excess of Malak's. However, his actual skill feats aren't in excess of Malak's at all.

4. I'm pretty sure the Sorcery only concealed it from being easily noticed or something - regardless, it's a spell from millennia ago, and Nadd is kind of dead as of RoT, to be fair.

5. Yeah, if you consider the extremity of the nexus and the fact that Bane charged up on the nexus, then it hardly outclasses Malak's Stasis/TK feats aboard the Leviathan, lol.

6. The Star Forge supposedly corrupted the entire Rakatan civilization, IIRC, which means it's indeed able to surpass Kaan's mental corruption feats, especially since it outright corrupted the Rakatans, as opposed to Kaan merely compelling his fellow Sith (IIRC, there were a few other exceptions beyond just Bane, too).

1. It demonstrates Bane is a more gifted swordsman than him.

2. Lolwut. Who cares, that's an utterly insignificant point even if true. The orbalisks likely just made it more difficult for him to concentrate his power at a fast moving target. Actual effort (maybe even 2 hands) on his part would easily meet or eclipse any pain. If it's that big a deal he can just bite his tongue and boom! Instant amp.

Also, even accounting for a slight pain amp lessening his abilities, whats Malak got that remotely compares, lol.

3. Technical mastery is skill, numbnuts. Kas'im is clearly a more skilled fighter than Malak is. More naturally gifted seeing as he mastered all forms in a few scant years. And much more refined considering that after those few years he spent decades perfecting every move and sequence of every form. Malak has no skill feats comparable. And Bane > Kas'im anyway.

4. I'm pretty sure that since I literally have the book right in front of me that you're wrong. It doesn't matter if it was made a long time ago, sith magic and alchemy can last that long without fading.

5. No, it really freaking does. That temple was absolutely gargantuan. Even accounting for those things, its a feat well beyond Malak stasising a nigh-featless Bastila.

6. That source is likely false since the Rakata didn't die in a civil war, they died of plague. Also it obviously didn't corrupt the whole Rakata considering only a few were powerful enough to use it. If it did corrupt them it probably only did so to those few who used it. Plus Malak may be similarly corrupted. He kind of also started a civil war, remember.

1. Perhaps, but Bane hasn't reached his peak yet as of this incarnation. I agree that future versions would beat Malak, but this one? Even provided that he did, his skill feats don't absolutely outclass Malak's.

2. Sure, Bane's Lightning is better. Except it can be caught on a lightsaber blade, and this version of Bane rarely uses Lightning in combat against any respectable opponent anyway.

3. Yeah, no. Cin Drallig mastered all the forms, but it meant nothing when Anakin cut him down easily whilst Choking Bene. Kas'im is good, no doubt - when Bane wrecked Sirak, he admitted he couldn't beat Kas'im at the time, IIRC, and Kas'im did also outspar Bane at some point in the novel. Regardless, his skill feats don't surpass Malak's feat of contending with Darth Revan, a presumably improved version over his past self who beat Mandalore the Ultimate. Mandalore one-shotted an earlier Alek who had swiftly stomped an "exceptional combatant".

4. Based on what? And I can concede the point, but considering it took place within proximity of Nadd's tomb, a nexus in of itself, I'm not seeing how it outclasses Malak's showings in the slightest.

5. Bastila is hardly near-featless. Her Battle Meditation overcome the nexus of the Star Forge to affect entire armies and turn the tide of the battle. The fact that Malak placed both her and Carth in Stasis with no apparent strain and proceeded to fight Revan, and later Whirlwind Revan and seal a door with telekinesis all at once suggests that Bane's nexus feat doesn't vastly outclass Malak's.

6. What does the Rakata dying in a plague have to do with whether or not they were corrupted, lol? They could have well been corrupted without them dying as a result.

1.

Originally posted by Nephthys
[Bane] was a master of multiple forms or all of them

Originally posted by Stigma
BTW do you have a source for this, Neph?

2.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The supposed nexus amp does nothing to dispute Bane's utter superiority.

Originally posted by Stigma
So you deny that a Force nexus amplifies one's abilities in the Force?

@ Neph, I’m going to press you on those two points.

Do you substantiate these claims, or do you concede?

Why are you guys wasting your time talking to Neph, lol?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Why are you guys wasting your time talking to Neph, lol?

@ Neph, just wanted to say that I take your silence as a clear sign that you’re not going to substantiate your claims..

In other words, I accept your concession . Thanks 👆

lmfao

^ Yeah. It was easier than I thought tbh.

I have a life outside this forum I was busy doing. And no, I'm not going to reply to you, Stigma. Stop talking to me.

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Perhaps, but Bane hasn't reached his peak yet as of this incarnation. I agree that future versions would beat Malak, but this one? Even provided that he did, his skill feats don't absolutely outclass Malak's.

True, but Bane probably did possess most of the lightsaber knowledge that he would ever possess at this point. He knew Kas'im's techniques inside and out and considering that previously it had been made clear that Bane should focus on his own skills before studying other styles, he likely possessed immense technical ability, possibly in all forms and not just Djem So. He was able to invent Zannah's custom weapon and defensive technique shortly after PoD, demonstrating a masterful grasp of Soresu without even accounting for the "impenetrable defense" he demonstrated against Kas'im. Speaking of which, I think it's indicative of great skill that when he fought Kas'im, whenever Kas'im tried to change tactics or switch forms he was able to anticipate, counter and seize the advantage. Considering Kas'ims mastery of all forms and techniques, that speaks of the breadth of Bane's own ability imo.

And I never stated that he utterly outclasses Malak, just that he is the superior swordsman. Malak also uses a really bizarre one-handed style, so Bane's attacks likely have more power on them, on top of his superior speed.

Originally posted by SunRazer
2. Sure, Bane's Lightning is better. Except it can be caught on a lightsaber blade, and this version of Bane rarely uses Lightning in combat against any respectable opponent anyway.

Lightsaber defenses can be overpowered. Bane's lightning is powerful enough that this is a possibility. Even if not, it's still an advantage and there's still the possibility of hitting Malak with lightning around his guard.

Originally posted by SunRazer
3. Yeah, no. Cin Drallig mastered all the forms, but it meant nothing when Anakin cut him down easily whilst Choking Bene. Kas'im is good, no doubt - when Bane wrecked Sirak, he admitted he couldn't beat Kas'im at the time, IIRC, and Kas'im did also outspar Bane at some point in the novel. Regardless, his skill feats don't surpass Malak's feat of contending with Darth Revan, a presumably improved version over his past self who beat Mandalore the Ultimate. Mandalore one-shotted an earlier Alek who had swiftly stomped an "exceptional combatant".

Comparing Anakin and Malak is ridiculous. Drallig got stomped by Anakin because Anakin was monstrously strong, fast and powerful and Drallig couldn't contend at all. Anakin didn't outskill him. Anakin is also an extremely gifted swordsman who's proved his skill to a much higher degree than Malak. Malak couldn't replicate Anakin's victory over someone like Kas'im. Merely fighting Darth Revan doesn't indicate Malak's in Kas'ims league in terms of lightsaber ability considering Revan isn't either. Beating Mandalore doesn't demonstrate Revan's lightsaber skill, its an obfuscated battle so we don't know how it went down or how well Revan did with what.

When Bane wrecked Sirak he actually laughed at the mere idea of fighting Kas'im seriously, calling it "preposterous". Later on Kas'im was very surprised that he couldn't straight up blitz Bane when they fought. And he moved with "far more speed than he had ever shown during their practice sessions." Meaning than when Bane laughed off the idea of fighting Kas'im, he was doing so about a duelist significantly inferior to Kas'im's true ability. He's clearly vastly above the Bane that fought Sirak.

Originally posted by SunRazer
4. Based on what? And I can concede the point, but considering it took place within proximity of Nadd's tomb, a nexus in of itself, I'm not seeing how it outclasses Malak's showings in the slightest.

Bane was weakened from the Thought Bomb, which worsened for him continually. He had massive headaches so bad he had to struggle to concentrate and his mind was so badly damaged he was hallucinating. He was hounded by apparitions of Kaan and Qordis and was heavily shaken in spirit.

It's also mentioned that anyone who'd previously been in Nadd's tomb may have lacked the power to move the slab, meaning Exar Kun. A possibility, a reason Kun never found it when he was there.

Originally posted by SunRazer
5. Bastila is hardly near-featless. Her Battle Meditation overcome the nexus of the Star Forge to affect entire armies and turn the tide of the battle. The fact that Malak placed both her and Carth in Stasis with no apparent strain and proceeded to fight Revan, and later Whirlwind Revan and seal a door with telekinesis all at once suggests that Bane's nexus feat doesn't vastly outclass Malak's.

Her BM doesn't translate into telekinesis or force power. Neither Bastila or Revan are provably powerful at this point such that ragdolling them is that impressive. It doesn't match shattering a 100 meter tall temple that withstood turbolaser fire.

Originally posted by SunRazer
6. What does the Rakata dying in a plague have to do with whether or not they were corrupted, lol? They could have well been corrupted without them dying as a result.

The original quote that says the Star Forge corrupted the Rakata says that it did so by causing them to have a civil war that wiped them out and destroyed the Infinite Empire. That's not what happened, so hmmm. And as I said, Malak didn't resist the Star Forge. The original quote says that the SF incited hatred in the Rakata and that's what corrupted them. Malak was also corrupted by hatred and lead a civil war. In fact, given that Vitiate didn't exist when that quote was written, I'd surmise that the Star Forge was probably what was intended to have been what turned Revan and Malak so evil so quickly.

To sum up, Bane is a better swordsman than Malak, he's faster, his lightning is better, his TK is superior or at least equal and in overall power he's just better than Malak is. Not sure how Malak can win this one.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I have a life outside this forum I was busy doing. And no, I'm not going to reply to you, Stigma. Stop talking to me.

But you should make a habit of not making claims that you cannot substantiate.

This is all. Peace.