Low Herald Tournament Odds

Originally posted by leonidas
well, if one isn't amping the other, there really is only so far 2 low heralds can go....

I'll give an example I'd planned for Curry's high meta amalgam tourney. I wanted to use Jarred Stephen's body with Arion's mind. As I showed here Arion is certainly not above high meta in context. As I showed in my BZ with Charlotte neither is Jarrod. However Jarred's body was bathed with the magic energy of both Nabu and Anubis. Granting a body like that the brain of a sorcerer like Arion would have made a high meta amalgam that was basically classic Dr Fate without "amping".

Neither of the choices I had was OP based on the limits but combined they certainly went to a new level (and that was without the "power" I was planning to add)

You can combine characters that you think could use the others existing powers in a new/better way. But you can't add characters that would increase the level of said power.

If a character has "innate" or "untapped" power that puts them above Low Herald level then they are over the caps to begin with.

We had a tourney before, High meta level I think, somone wanted Cable with TO virus, then drafted someone who took away the TO virus and was left with full power Cable - that was classed as an illegal strategy.

Originally posted by beatboks
Unless one character allows access to power inately within another that they normally cannot use. That doesn't "amp" just open a door.

I'll give an example I'd planned for Curry's high meta amalgam tourney. I wanted to use Jarred Stephen's body with Arion's mind. As I showed here Arion is certainly not above high meta in context. As I showed in my BZ with Charlotte neither is Jarrod. However Jarred's body was bathed with the magic energy of both Nabu and Anubis. Granting a body like that the brain of a sorcerer like Arion would have made a high meta amalgam that was basically classic Dr Fate without "amping".

Neither of the choices I had was OP based on the limits but combined they certainly went to a new level (and that was without the "power" I was planning to add)

well, i'd disagree that that would make a dr fate level being. not sure why stephens body would be any better than arion's--in fact, stephens is immune to magic, almost completely, so those 2 seem counter-productive to me. of course, the dagger and cloak bandage he had might help i guess.....

anyway, that's neither here nor there. i will say that i'm not sure that sounds fully legal as i understood the rules. for example, that would mean if i wanted to merge sage with rogue, i could get the celestial lifting rogue, as sage would 'unlock' rogue's true potential and grant her access to every power she's ever borrowed. technically, it's not an amp, just sage opening a door inside rogue. sage just 'innately' opens that door.

imo that strategy, and sage herself, would, and should be, illegal in this IF she is being used to 'jump-start' any mutant she is paired with (all her other abilities would be fine of course). anyway, that's just the way i understood the rules and i hope i've understood them correctly....

Rogue was one of my top picks here when i was thinking about drafting. Had her in two different combo's - one that opened her powers and one that opened another's. Deemed legal. Just saying.

really? hmmm... that's an interesting bit of info right there.... i may need to spend the next day or so rethinking something.

Originally posted by leonidas
well, i'd disagree that that would make a dr fate level being. not sure why stephens body would be any better than arion's--in fact, stephens is immune to magic, almost completely, so those 2 seem counter-productive to me. of course, the dagger and cloak bandage he had might help i guess.....

anyway, that's neither here nor there. i will say that i'm not sure that sounds fully legal as i understood the rules. for example, that would mean if i wanted to merge sage with rogue, i could get the celestial lifting rogue, as sage would 'unlock' rogue's true potential and grant her access to every power she's ever borrowed. technically, it's not an amp, just sage opening a door inside rogue. sage just 'innately' opens that door.

imo that strategy, and sage herself, would, and should be, illegal in this IF she is being used to 'jump-start' any mutant she is paired with (all her other abilities would be fine of course). anyway, that's just the way i understood the rules and i hope i've understood them correctly....

Arion has the knowledge of magic greater than almost all in DCU except maybe his father, Nabu and Mordru but not the power (his problem was constant over committal of his power limitations ).

Having Stephens body and the Eldridge energy within it would certainly have taken him to that level. Essentially all the feats that many use to associate him with high herald would suddenly be open as they use power on or below the level he had due to the amps (like possession by Mordru, or Morgane Le Fey).

So while Arion and Jarred weren't over the limits for the tourney the combination certainly would have achieved the level that those objecting to them were questioning.

The power pick I originally had in mind for that tourney was Amazingman who would have given me much what rogue did/ would (considering the absorbing overmaster feat / Galactus rip off)

I thought It was sort of ironic at the time that the only pick Curry allowed was Amazingman who based on feats was the most powerful.

Also given that Id himself used that exact amalgam in Curry's tourney (sage and Rogue) for a high meta as well as the fact that Sage doesn't as I see it "amp"

Yeah, way I see it, they just open up your full potential.

Because isn't that what WE'RE doing anyway, with a BZ? CIS is out the window, which essentially unlocks their potential.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, way I see it, they just open up your full potential.

Because isn't that what WE'RE doing anyway, with a BZ? CIS is out the window, which essentially unlocks their potential.

Potential for power usage and potential for power limits are not the same thing.

If one character can increase the standard power level of another it's considered amping, I entered this tourney because I liked the "no-amping" rule, otherwise I probably wouldn't have bothered.

Changing the attitude/inventiveness towards power use is fine, changing the entire power level/ability is quite different.

What if I drafted Namor and captain Britain (not for this tourney, obv, lol).

Namor's confidence, allied with Caps confidence powers...

Originally posted by beatboks
Also given that Id himself used that exact amalgam in Curry's tourney (sage and Rogue) for a high meta as well as the fact that Sage doesn't as I see it "amp"

well, i'd def have enjoyed debating that arion/stephens amalgam... anyway, i would absolutely have seen sage as amping. curry's rules were different than the rules we're using here, which were initially intended to be modeled on the rules i used in that little secret wars tourney i had a little while back. as the host of that tourney i would have ruled sage as amping beyond the natural level. now, some leeway is going to need to be given, but the spirit of the rule needs to be maintained. unlocking someone is raising that individual's powers to a level beyond what they would normally be able to attain and to me, that goes against what the spirit of the rule was meant to be. it would have fallen under the 'no loopholes' rule for me. 😬

that said, this is id's show, and if that's the rule we're using, i'll accommodate it, but i'd have certainly rather seen that type of strategy ruled illegal.

@saint: brian was banned from my tounrey. but, as for the strategy you're going for: namor/brian would have been skirting the rules, but i think i would have been forced to allow such a combo in my tourney. namor wouldn't give him access to any MORE power. brian already has some uber feats on his own (that's why he was banned). namor might have (maybe) been seen as a way to give him more...consistent levels of power, but since it's no cis anyway, brian would have had access to his power anyway imo....

again, not trying to force a rule change or anything, just....raised an eyebrow at the legality of this type of strat. i'll adjust.

I love playing with the rules.

Also: Who else wants to judge my BZ with LoB?

Rules

Power Level & Format: 2-character amalgam. Low Herald each.

Post Limit: 5

CIS & PIS is OFF!: We are drafting 2 characters, and its abilities. You the participant take ownership of how said characters & abilities will be realized in combat.

Character Knowledge: Contestants are fully aware the characters drafted, including its history, and weaknesses.
Also the Amalgam can use powers as good as the originals.

Amping Rules: Disallowed. Materials that aid a power (i.e. Jeffries/adamantium) are allowed. Power amping is not (i.e. The Ray + Kara)

Note: Amping is a state of empowerment fueled by some source source, that increases a characters physical prowess or ability.

Tech Creation & Non-Autonomous Constructs/Summons: Low Herald limit.

No you can not summon an entire realm or dimension.

You are in control of the character, but you are also confined to what that character has accomplished historically.

You can't borrow feats from someone else, even if your similar characters.

Example:
X-Man can not Borrow Feats Cable.
G.L. Hal can not Borrow Feats from G.L. John.

Prep: You are given time to raise shields. Otherwise NO prep time.

Creating gear can only take place in the heat of battle, after the bell has rung.

TP: Low Herald

Speed: Up to lightspeed.

Banned Powers: Reality Warp, Time Manip., Duplication, Power Copying, Autonomous Constructs (tech or magic), Memory Retention

Note: Space Manipulation, Matter Manipulation, and the Speed Force is allowed provided that the drafted characters are low herald and below.

Functional Immortals are Banned: Functional immortals such as Lobo, Mr. Immortal, Deadpool are disallowed or voided.

Standard Gear Rule Character comes in with what he is historically known for caring.

Non standard gear must be created you NOT grab it from your lab, and equip yourself with it.

BFR BFR is banned.

Self BFR is only good for phasing.

Good for 1 second.

^^i'd noticed. sneer

Ill start answering pms and questions shortly.

Originally posted by "Id"
[b]Rules)

Note: Amping is a state of empowerment fueled by some source source, that increases a characters physical prowess or ability.[/B]

this is the part of the rule being....interpreted differently. imo, sage is pretty clearly a source that increases power beyond that character's natural limit. but it sounds like that isn't the case, which is fine. it's just not what i expected.

I am going to be to the point.

Sage + Rogue is deemed LEGAL.

Sage is not amping the character. She is uncorking, or unlocking an existing ability or power that Rogue can not accesses on her own.

For those that see Sage use "Jump Start" as an amp, I certainly do not see that way. It should be to No One's surprise since they where part of the combo I ran in Curry's High Meta tournament.

There are other combos out there that fall under the power unlock, have fun discovering them you have till 08/21/2015 (8 a.m. central time) to submit your request.

If rogue "can't" do it without sage, then it is clearly amping.

I know you have personal history with this, but if you are allowing it then the "unlocked" character should also be within the low Herald cap.

Otherwise this tourney is getting crazy.

Originally posted by Scoobless
If rogue "can't" do it without sage, then it is clearly amping.

I know you have personal history with this, but if you are allowing it then the "unlocked" character should also be within the low Herald cap.

Otherwise this tourney is getting crazy.

Is Rogue being fueled by an external power source? No.

Does the existence of Sage fused with Rogue empower Rogues abilities? No.

Sage is performing a very specific ability on Rogue to accesses her abilities. Nothing is being amplified.

Well its not a tournament if there is no drama. Right? heh

Anyhow we always figure out something for future reference. Next time if you want to rule up "Power Unlocking" or Limiting an unlocked character. Be sure to bring up.

In the mean time, I am looking forward to the drafts.