New Darth Vader....Vader down.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
I think they should be equal in that regard, or maybe a slight edge to Palps.

But this is really just because...what else can Vader do exactly?

Well he's also the best pilot out of all the Jedi/Sith.

So he has 3 main strengths that they've always drilled into us - His Physical strength/durability, TK, and Piloting abilities. So have him be the best in those 3 categories I say.

Yoda/Sidious tier would still beat him in a Saber fight due to greater speed and agility.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
So you think Palpatine should have greater TK than what Vader's showing?

Yes and no. Yes, that I think Palpatine should have more powerful TK. No in the sense that I think Vader’s displays are far too great.

At the end of the day Vader is the guy in the heavy armor at the front lines while Palpatine looks down with scorn at sabers. They are fantasy archetypes so yeah, Vader should be better with swords and Palpatine with magic.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well he's also the best pilot out of all the Jedi/Sith.

So he has 3 main strengths that they've always drilled into us - His Physical strength/durability, TK, and Piloting abilities. So have him be the best in those 3 categories I say.

Yoda/Sidious tier would still beat him in a Saber fight due to greater speed and agility.

Well I was kinda excluding piloting and physicals, more looking at the saber and TK. But yeah, I can get behind that too.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well he's also the best pilot out of all the Jedi/Sith.

So he has 3 main strengths that they've always drilled into us - His Physical strength/durability, TK, and Piloting abilities. So have him be the best in those 3 categories I say.

Yoda/Sidious tier would still beat him in a Saber fight due to greater speed and agility.

The Force isn't magic, ares. It's Jesus power. There's a difference.

@ Ares:

I personally wouldn't take those archetypes that literally.

Ben was supposed to be an Old Wizard. Doesn't really say anything about his abilities in relation to other Jedi/Sith.

The difference is that is what the characters are meant to be and are; it's not just a term given to them by an ignorant man.

Edit: Kenobi's archetype was the retired gunslinger. Yoda was the wizard or more perhaps more accurately the sage.

You're going cross-genre. Ben was not the retired gunslinger. He was just another Knight and mentor. The only archetype he holds is the Obi-Wan. Vader may also be the Black Knight, but his role is more of the Dragon. The armor is a bonus.

The retired gunslinger archetype doesn't literally have to be a gunslinger it's just an old warrior who has fought in a while; similar in regards to how a Black Knight doesn’t have to be literally a knight or black (though in Vader’s case he is literally a black knight). And yes, Vader serves as the Dragon as well.

Vader is more of a terrorist than anything else really

Which wasn't the point I was making; though I'll admit genre wasn't the best word to use there. The only thing Obi-Wan has in common with the "retired gunslinger' archetype is he changed his name and got out of the game. He is still primarily there to be the Obi-Wan. Quite literally. He's still more of the magic knight than anything. Second, and on a similar note, that had nothing to do with my assessment of Vader. His role as the Dragon is far more important than his role as the Black Knight.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Which wasn't the point I was making. The only thing Obi-Wan has in common with the "retired gunslinger' archetype is he changed his name and got out of the game. He is still primarily there to be the Obi-Wan. Quite literally. He's still more of the magic knight than anything. Second, and on a similar note, that had nothing to do with my assessment of Vader. His role as the Dragon is far more important than his role as the Black Knight.

That’s pretty much the extent of the retired gunslinger archetype though…

And the Black Knight is less a role and more attributes of the character. Vader’s role is that of the dragon whereas black knight gives his attributes.

True, but Obi-Wan's entire character was to die. Everything else was irrelevant. Yoda's more the retired gunslinger than anyone here. And meh. The Black Knight is almost always a Dragon. No point in mentioning being a Black Knight.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ Nah. Let Sidious be superior in Sabers. But in Force Powers I would prefer them to be near equals, which seems to be where they're going with this IMO.

Though preferably, I would rather have Sidious outclass Vader in every category like he did in Legends.

Sidious is kind of a *****, so he should be superior in no category in a just world.

The new trilogy will give us respectable villains that will make Vader and Sidious look impotent by comparison.

*****'s rule the planet bro.

Originally posted by Sinious
lol no dude. For reasons stated above, if Vader is nearing Sidious in any major category, it should be melee. I mean they already took away Sidious' speed advantage anyway.

Though preferably, I would rather have Sidious outclass Vader in every category like he did in Legends.

How did they take away his speed advantage?

Vader's TK is by far his greatest power (after his piloting abilities). So if there's any category he should rival Sidious in its that IMO. And Not Sabers where he fought seemingly evenly with Old Ben and Padawan Luke.

I would not have any problem about Vader holding an edge over Sheev in physical strength.

It could also be argued that he's more durable than Sheev.

Not sure how it's even arguable when one is fully encased in armor and the other is a decrepit old man...