Do you want a women for President next year?

Started by red g jacks7 pages

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yes, yes we are. Which topic are we in...oh okay.

So, while I think gender and race can play a role in decision making (which they have in the last 250 years anyways, i.e. you had to be white and male) and while it does play a role for me, I favor Bernie Sanders over Hillary Clinton

i think there's definitely some merit to the idea that a woman president would be good for society in the sense that you said... it's an inspiration for women. i dunno about the whole "women will be more receptive to women's issues" thing though. not that it doesn't make some sense intuitively... but really i question how much of an impact that would have on the general policy direction of their administration. because politicians seem largely bound by whatever the current status quo is. sort of like obama

but i do think the president is first and foremost a symbolic figurehead... and thus i also favor bernie sanders over hillary... because imo the perfect symbolic figurehead for the united states is a short balding loud mouthed elderly jew. if i could elect larry david instead then i would, but for now i'll settle for mr. sanders

Originally posted by Surtur
But then you could of just said yes I summed it up correctly.

I don't think you did quite some it up correctly. Like it makes it seem much worse than what I actually believe.

Originally posted by Q99
I also want to mention that what candidate is selected sends a meta-message.

If you tell people, "You can be anything, even president!" but there are no actual presidents of your group, and when someone tries, people go, "Oh, people

If you tell people, "You can be anything, even president!" and people actually are president of your group, it sends the message that they can actually be president, which encourages more people to try, which expands the talent pool from which presidents are drawn from. It may not pay off for decades, but it's likely to pay off.

There's thus a good long-term reason to use the meta-message a candidate sends as a tie breaker. Even if it's not something they themselves are consciously doing, electing a president is in part about the message we as a country wish to send about who we are.

And, if someone is more aware of issues that aren't much of a concern at the moment, that isn't much help. There's a couple women's issues that are active at the moment, pay gap and all that, so there is a reason to want someone knowledge about those specifically, more so than issues that are not currently being debated.

Like, if a candidate is good at running a healthy economy and you're in a recovery, that's less useful than someone who knows recoveries.

If a candidate is a doctor who knows health care, that's more useful if health care reform is a major issue at the moment. But if everyone's happy with health care, who cares?

Someone who knows the hispanic immigrant situation has a much more relevant specialty than someone who knows the Irish-American situation in equal depth, because how to treat Irish Americans is not a particularly on topic issue at the moment. Go back a hundred years ago and the situation is different.

Gender and minority issues are a topic being grappled with right now. There is thus specific reason to have someone with greater familiarity on them.

Thus on balance, I'd pick Marco Rubio, who's hispanic, or Jeb Bush, who is white but has a history of dealing with hispanics showing he has reasonable familiarity, over one of the Republican candidates who show no particular knowledge in the area. Or Trump, who shows, like, anti-knowledge of the area.

And similarly, Hillary has greater experience and knowledge of gender issues facing women than most of her opponents, so that's a point in her favor.

👆

Originally posted by marwash22
unlike Shambama, Elizabeth Warren is actually a progressive who wants to fight against the banks.

I was jk. I'm sure you realized that, but just in case in you didn't.

She's a pretteh cool guy.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Not quite. It's more like my stance is a 5 (neutral) and his is a 6 (slight bias in favor of women). That's what I meant when I told him that degrees thing.

But he thinks the same of me. I thinks I'm slightly sexist against women. He probably views me as a 4 because I think women should be able to do nudes, strip, do porn, etc., and not be **** shamed for it.


Well, that comment makes you pro-women(on that issue at least) in my book.

And my book is the only book that matters. Let's just be real here.

I dunno, i saw it on the sale rack at B&N...😱

If you tell people, "You can be anything, even president!" but there are no actual presidents of your group, and when someone tries, people go, "Oh, people

Realize I left off a sentence there!

"Oh, people are just voting them because they're X."

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Oh your right, if Bush had wrote that, he would be a hero.

Haaaa!

Okay, I see your point, TI. Yeah, if Bush wrote that, the Libtards would be shitting themselves.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Haaaa!

Okay, I see your point, TI. Yeah, if Bush wrote that, the Libtards would be shitting themselves.

Yea Bardock took that and ran with "It was for women's rights! I swear!"

If Bush had wrote that, people would be calling for impeachment and striking him from history books.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Haaaa!

Okay, I see your point, TI. Yeah, if Bush wrote that, the Libtards would be shitting themselves.

Sure, there would have been outrage on the Democratic side, and partisan people on the Republican side would have argued it wasn't a big deal, that always happens. There's also a crucial difference though, George W. Bush and Bernie Sanders have completely different histories and stances on issues. That's why it is perfectly plausible what Bernie Sanders says, but if Bush said the same it would be a laughable lie.

Originally posted by Q99
I also want to mention that what candidate is selected sends a meta-message.

If you tell people, "You can be anything, even president!" but there are no actual presidents of your group, and when someone tries, people go, "Oh, people

If you tell people, "You can be anything, even president!" and people actually are president of your group, it sends the message that they can actually be president, which encourages more people to try, which expands the talent pool from which presidents are drawn from. It may not pay off for decades, but it's likely to pay off.

There's thus a good long-term reason to use the meta-message a candidate sends as a tie breaker. Even if it's not something they themselves are consciously doing, electing a president is in part about the message we as a country wish to send about who we are.

And, if someone is more aware of issues that aren't much of a concern at the moment, that isn't much help. There's a couple women's issues that are active at the moment, pay gap and all that, so there is a reason to want someone knowledge about those specifically, more so than issues that are not currently being debated.

Like, if a candidate is good at running a healthy economy and you're in a recovery, that's less useful than someone who knows recoveries.

If a candidate is a doctor who knows health care, that's more useful if health care reform is a major issue at the moment. But if everyone's happy with health care, who cares?

Someone who knows the hispanic immigrant situation has a much more relevant specialty than someone who knows the Irish-American situation in equal depth, because how to treat Irish Americans is not a particularly on topic issue at the moment. Go back a hundred years ago and the situation is different.

Gender and minority issues are a topic being grappled with right now. There is thus specific reason to have someone with greater familiarity on them.

Thus on balance, I'd pick Marco Rubio, who's hispanic, or Jeb Bush, who is white but has a history of dealing with hispanics showing he has reasonable familiarity, over one of the Republican candidates who show no particular knowledge in the area. Or Trump, who shows, like, anti-knowledge of the area.

And similarly, Hillary has greater experience and knowledge of gender issues facing women than most of her opponents, so that's a point in her favor.

I'll play devil's advocate for a bit (because that's what I do):

What if the young girl best identifies with a man who has her skin color?

What if a young girl best identifies with a man who has her hair color?

What if a young girl best identifies with a man that shares her values?

There are other scenarios that fit what you're talking about. Children identify with multiple traits from people they look up to: not just gender.

For instance, I identified with Walter Payton and Randall Cunningham as a kid. Both of them are black men who were very talented, enormously kind, very generous, and giving men.

I thought Samus Aran from Super Metroid (the game) was the coolest "hero" type when I was a kid, as well (she beat out other "heroes" such as Tony Stark, Peter Parker, Bruce Wayne, Frank Castle, etc.).

So when we conclude that little girls cannot identify with male politicians, it becomes sexist against both sexes. Here's how:

1. This implies that females are incapable of looking past gender.
2. Males are not role models that females can or should look up to.

I do agree that a female president could help some little girls better identify with politics, however. So, on the above comments, I was seriously playing devil's advocate.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Sure, there would have been outrage on the Democratic side, and partisan people on the Republican side would have argued it wasn't a big deal, that always happens.

Yup, that was my point. 👆

And I hadn't thought about "reversing the political party" to check to see how stupid the outrage was until TI's post.

Originally posted by Bardock42
There's also a crucial difference though, George W. Bush and Bernie Sanders have completely different histories and stances on issues. That's why it is perfectly plausible what Bernie Sanders says, but if Bush said the same it would be a laughable lie.

This is where we differ. I'm not buying into this bullshit. 🙂

It's partisan shit slinging. That's all.

If Bernie Sanders gets elected could that count as First Woman President?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yup, that was my point. 👆

And I hadn't thought about "reversing the political party" to check to see how stupid the outrage was until TI's post.

This is where we differ. I'm not buying into this bullshit. 🙂

It's partisan shit slinging. That's all.

Well, whether you agree or not it is different.

Originally posted by Q99
Realize I left off a sentence there!

"Oh, people are just voting them because they're X."


I kinda figured thats what you meant. 😂

Thing is, people go on record sying thats WHY they'e voting like they do.
I was told back in 08 thst it was my DUTY to vote for Obama because he/i was black.
Uh...no. Not remotely.

Really its not the person running its the people voting...

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'll play devil's advocate for a bit (because that's what I do):

What if the young girl best identifies with a man who has her skin color?

What if a young girl best identifies with a man who has her hair color?

What if a young girl best identifies with a man that shares her values?

Then they should vote them, plain and simple, no question.

It's one factor, not a decide-all, of course.

Politicians have a lot of factors, and having a background that is under-reflected is one selling point, and a willingness to fight for a group that needs fighting for is another, but there's plenty of others. Like, if the person of a group really doesn't share your values? Then you shouldn't vote for them, no question.

Herman Cain was black, but his tax plan would've been horrible for good chunks of the black community (as it'd pretty much involve gutting the government and removing the services they specifically needed). So while some would vote for him because his shared experience, many more would vote against him out of self-interest and strongly conflicting values.

Barack Obama was black and had values that many agreed with and supported, so it's like, bonus time.

People say it shouldn't matter, and that's wrong, where someone comes from and their experience does matter. People who say it's the only thing that matters is also wrong.

It's one factor and people may weigh it as they see fit.

Adam let Eve make his decisions for him so I'd really trust a women in power.

Originally posted by Wonder Man
Adam let Eve make his decisions for him so I'd really trust a women in power.

Yeah, and look where that got him. I don't mind a woman in power as long as I agree with her stance on key issues but Adam and Eve is not exactly the best example to use to support your opinion of a woman being in power being a good thing.

Lol yeah. It amuses me when people try and come up with examples of women in power being a good thing, and said examples are completely awful and suggest the contrary. Not that I believe women in power is a bad thing, or that there aren't plenty of good examples to choose from. Just that I'm amused by what constitutes a good example for some people.

It amuses me how that situation is apparently common enough for you to have become a recurring situation at all.

Also Eve did nothing wrong. **** the patriarchy!

Originally posted by Wonder Man
Adam let Eve make his decisions for him so I'd really trust a women in power.

Eve made a decision on her own. Granting humanity knowledge of good and evil and life beyond the walls of the garden, moving from humans being essentially a zoo exhibit to, well, you're on a computer right now.

it would just be nice to finally have a 200+ year combo-breaker of the sexes.

of course the strawman says that this equates to voting for someone on the grounds that they are a woman. he says silly things, that guy.