Originally posted by Q99
Eve made a decision on her own. Granting humanity knowledge of good and evil and life beyond the walls of the garden, moving from humans being essentially a zoo exhibit to, well, you're on a computer right now.
1. But she didn't make the decision on her own. Satan persuaded her. Without his persuasion, she most likely would've never ate from it.
2. Do you really think that God would've never allowed them to venture outside the Garden if she had obeyed Him and didn't eat from the tree?
3. By eating from the tree they disobeyed God and it was the death of their innocence. Up until that point, they were always happy and never felt sorrow, pain, or hardship. God had provided them with everything they needed for a perfect beautiful life and He would've always protected them. By disobeying God, they lost all of that. How is that a good thing, iyo? I mean, have you looked around at the world today? It's a mess. Because of the actions of the parents of the human race all humans are born with a sinful nature that they inherited from those two. Do you think all these wars, death, and hunger are a good thing? Yes, all of those are a result of sin somewhere along the line.
4. What's so great about being able to "be on a computer" compared to experiencing the joy of living a carefree beautiful life while always under God's protection? Always being happy with no hate in your heart? Filled with love for your Creator and your spouse and the beautiful world God created for you to enjoy and marvel at with no sinful or evil desires to keep you from enjoying life to the fullest as God intended you to? You would never be bored because you wouldn't know what boredom was.
5. Finally, do you enjoy experiencing extreme pain in childbirth? Do you think men enjoy having to work so damn hard at tilling the soil of a garden? By disobeying God, Adam and Eve brought those curses upon themselves and all their descendants.
Bottom line: Eve's decision to eat from the tree was not a good one. But it wasn't entirely her fault just as it wasn't entirely Adam's fault that he ate from it either.
This is not the religion forum so maybe we shouldn't derail this thread any further.
Originally posted by Star428
1. But she didn't make the decision on her own. Satan persuaded her. Without his persuasion, she most likely would've never ate from it.
No, a snake did, one of god's creatures.
While many associate the snake with satan, this isn't accurate. God cursed the snake to not have legs. Satan has legs. The snake was not Satan, one doesn't overcome god's curses.
2. Do you really think that God would've never allowed them to venture outside the Garden if she had obeyed Him and didn't eat from the tree?
Probably no, no. See, they were in immortal blissful ignorance, that was the point. They weren't learning or changing. They were static.
Note also how god had a plan for humans to be fruitful and multiple and rule the Earth. Eve biting the apple is pretty much a prerequisite of that, there was no reproduction beforehand.
3. By eating from the tree they disobeyed God and it was the death of their innocence. Up until that point, they were always happy and never felt sorrow, pain, or hardship.
Sure, but they were also pretty much pets. They never learned from mistakes, or changed. God didn't teach them anything, they never built anything. They merely existed.
Eve gave humanity agency.
God had provided them with everything they needed for a perfect beautiful life and He would've always protected them. By disobeying God, they lost all of that. How is that a good thing, iyo?
Well, for one thing, it would've been just those two forever. There were no children til afterwards.
So yea, it'd be great for them, not so great for humanity and all it had to do.
5. Finally, do you enjoy experiencing extreme pain in childbirth? Do you think men enjoy having to work so damn hard at tilling the soil of a garden? By disobeying God, Adam and Eve brought those curses upon themselves and all their descendants.
Eh, there is the actual biological setup to consider. Humans are physically set up this way, period.
Also, we have these lovely things called 'drugs'. Brains made them!
Bottom line: Eve's decision to eat from the tree was not a good one.
It seems to me to be an entirely necessary part of God's plan.
Eve lead the way into humans spreading across the Earth, Adam followed.
StyleTime
...there's definitely better examples of female leaders than ****ing Eve people.I could walk into a mall, eyes closed, and randomly bump into women more fit to lead.
Also true. Aside from being, y'know, a religious metaphor to begin with, an uneducated person who lived in a garden is not going to have the knowledge and education of a highschool dropout.
Originally posted by Shinobi Popcorn
Yes, I think it's time for a female president.But it bothers me that they question how things like grandchildren would affect Hillary Clinton's potential administration, yet I don't remember them ever bringing this up when Sarah Palin was potential vice president.
Probably because she was only in the VP slot, and because there was more her vast inexperience and other problems to worry about. Those against her had more serious concerns, and were generally ones without a problem with women running.
Though I think the grand child talk is more a way to imply she should be doing 'older womanly' things rather than running. You can't come out and say that, obviously, so you kinda code-word it. There's no actual reason for it to be a concern but mentioning it is a way to imply other stuff.
You seem to think that Satan doesn't have the power to take on different forms. He does.
I don't have time to reply to all of your replies right now but God didn't curse the snake to not have legs till after He caught Adam and Eve and asked them what happened. Which I always assumed meant that up until that point serpents had some type of legs or perhaps that was the only serpent up untill that time. But, I still believe it was Satan himself though. A normal serpent wouldn't be able to talk. That serpent wasn't normal by any means and bible even said that the serpent was the most cunning of all God's creatures. Everyone knows that Satan is undisputably the most cunning of all God's creatures. Also, Satan is referred to many times in the Bible by the name "serpent" or "that serpent of old". He took the form of a serpent to deceive Eve. And a normal serpent would have no reason to try and deceive her. A normal snake wouldn't even have approached them. All it would care about is finding it's next meal and resting. Guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this.
I'll read and reply to your other replies tomorrow.
Originally posted by Q99
No, a snake did, one of god's creatures.While many associate the snake with satan, this isn't accurate. God cursed the snake to not have legs. Satan has legs. The snake was not Satan, one doesn't overcome god's curses.
The Snake just got curse. Satan got DAMNED! Big Diff..
and how dare you bring RELIGION into a Political Debate!
🤣
Originally posted by Star428
Sure it sounds that way. It's not though. 🙂
How convenient we have the bible with all these fantastical stories to reminisce about then. The earth sure is a lot more boring today than it was back then. Seems like miracles and interactions with god happened every other week.
Man the world sucks today, rapture take me.
Originally posted by Q99
Probably no, no. See, they were in immortal blissful ignorance, that was the point. They weren't learning or changing. They were static.
You don't know that for certain. We can only speculate as to what God had in store for them. IMO, I don't think God would've been so cruel as to not let them ever venture outside the Garden. You also can't say for certain that they were cursed to remain forever "static". God gave them a brain, afterall. I seriously doubt he would've done that if he wanted them to be "ignorant" of the their surrounding world or how it works forever. Btw, the forbidden tree was not called the "tree of knowledge" but the "tree of knowledge of good and evil". So, knowledge in general wasn't forbidden but just the knowledge of good and evil. I don't see why that meant they couldn't have a learning mind.
Note also how god had a plan for humans to be fruitful and multiple and rule the Earth. Eve biting the apple is pretty much a prerequisite of that, there was no reproduction beforehand.
Again, this just isn't true, imo. Nothing in the bible makes me believe that just because they were forbidden to learn about "good" and "evil" that they couldn't have a brain that learns how to rule over all the beasts and animals of the earth. Having a knowledge of what is "good" and what is "evil" is not a requirement for ruling over a bunch of dumb animals.
Sure, but they were also pretty much pets. They never learned from mistakes, or changed. God didn't teach them anything, they never built anything. They merely existed.Eve gave humanity agency.
See my reply above.
Well, for one thing, it would've been just those two forever. There were no children til afterwards.
Not sure what you mean here. As you've just admitted above, God told them to multiply. Why wouldn't they have children? Are u claiming they didn't even know how to do that? LOL. I'm sure God implanted basic instinct in them at least. Quite certain they would've eventually still reproduced even without eating from the tree.
So yea, it'd be great for them, not so great for humanity and all it had to do.
Heh... Once again, guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. Imo, mankind would be much better off today because we all wouldn't be born with such a sinful nature and the world would be a much better place.
It's frightening that god created these two beings, they lived in ignorant bliss until a shape shifting creature whose true nature they clearly were unprepared for could trick them into bringing sin into the world, thus ruining everything for the countless billions of people who came after.
We never had a chance. Two people f***ed up and now god leaves large parts of the world to war torn grief and poverty, never stepping in to do anything.
Then people defend and worship this tyrant.
Hilarious.
Originally posted by Q99Eh, there is the actual biological setup to consider. Humans are physically set up this way, period.
Also, we have these lovely things called 'drugs'. Brains made them!
No. I don't believe a woman would be going thru the same great pain during childbirth if it wasn't for Eve sinning. Also, obviously I'm not a woman but does taking those drugs really take away ALL the pain during childbirth. Not trying to provoke you, here. Just curious.
It seems to me to be an entirely necessary part of God's plan.
No, it wasn't a "necessary" thing.
Eve lead the way into humans spreading across the Earth, Adam followed.
LOL. Uh, no. They would've reproduced even without eating from the tree. Eve didn't "lead" anything. Whether or not you agree that the serpent was Satan or not or Satan just influencing the serpent it doesn't matter. Without the serpent's persuasion, Eve probably would've never ate from the tree. Though, like I said already, eating fromthe tree was not a "prerequisite" for reproducing or ruling the earth.
Also true. Aside from being, y'know, a religious metaphor to begin with, an uneducated person who lived in a garden is not going to have the knowledge and education of a highschool dropout. [/B]
Once again, you don't know for sure that Adam and Eve had a "static" brain as you claim. I really don't think God would've given them a brain and then forbid them to ever use it.