Self Defense

Originally posted by Bardock42
Cops get paid to put themselves into these situations, it's their job, if they wanted to increase their odds of survival yes, they should not draw guns or get near criminals at all. But it's a different situation. You are not a cop tasked with bringing the robber to justice, you are a civilian who is being robbed and needs to maximise his chance of survival.

Or he would have seen you draw it and murdered you.

I doubt it, I'm pretty sure I can take a untrained homeless street thug out. I know you would have done everything including bend over though.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I doubt it, I'm pretty sure I can take a untrained homeless street thug out. I know you would have done everything including bend over though.

Yeah, you are well trained, maybe you would have had a good chance, maybe 80% you win. That's still a 20% chance you bleed to death for the couple twenties in your wallet....it's just not worth it.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, you are well trained, maybe you would have had a good chance, maybe 80% you win. That's still a 20% chance you bleed to death for the couple twenties in your wallet....it's just not worth it.

You do realize I been shot at before. I doubt this guy had, he had the upper hand because he was armed, if I was armed he would have ran like a pussy.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I doubt it, I'm pretty sure I can take a untrained homeless street thug out. I know you would have done everything including bend over though.

😆 😆

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
You do realize I been shot at before. I doubt this guy had, he had the upper hand because he was armed, if I was armed he would have ran like a pussy.

Or he would have gotten scared and started shooting you frantically and possibly hit you and killed you.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Or he would have gotten scared and started shooting you frantically and possibly hit you and killed you.

Do you know how hard it is to hit someone with a bullet much less from a handgun? Have you even picked a gun up and ever tried to shoot on target.

Until you have, your statement is empty words based on clueless thinking.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Do you know how hard it is to hit someone with a bullet much less from a handgun? Have you even picked a gun up and ever tried to shoot on target.

Until you have, your statement is empty words based on clueless thinking.

Well, I've used to shoot rifle for sport, but no, I wouldn't know how hard it is to shoot a handgun first hand. It doesn't matter though over 10000 people are killed by guns in the US, obviously people are able to murder other people with guns. Again it's not just my silly idea, go to any police station in your country and ask whether you should draw a gun when you are robbed at gunpoint or comply with the robbers demands, the answer will be the same as mine.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, I've used to shoot rifle for sport, but no, I wouldn't know how hard it is to shoot a handgun first hand. It doesn't matter though over 10000 people are killed by guns in the US, obviously people are able to murder other people with guns. Again it's not just my silly idea, go to any police station in your country and ask whether you should draw a gun when you are robbed at gunpoint or comply with the robbers demands, the answer will be the same as mine.

Speculation

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Speculation

And your theory that the robber would just have been scared off and run away isn't?

Originally posted by Bardock42
And your theory that the robber would just have been scared off and run away isn't?

A robber isn't looking to kill people, he's looking to steal with the use of force and intimidation.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
A robber isn't looking to kill people, he's looking to steal with the use of force and intimidation.

And if he's scared that the victim might shoot him he might act first and shoot the victim.

Originally posted by Bardock42
And if he's scared that the victim might shoot him he might act first and shoot the victim.

You seem to know a lot for never being in any situation you talk about.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
You seem to know a lot for never being in any situation you talk about.

Originally posted by Bardock42
And you seem to always have a personal anecdote that explains your stance even though it's contrary to statistical analysis and expert opinion...

Oh and where are your statistics? Personal experience holds more weight then your keystrokes across the pond.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Oh and where are your statistics? Personal experience holds more weight then your keystrokes across the pond.

I just returned your blanket statement in the same vein. What we know for sure from your personal anecdote is that you survived. And that's the important thing. If you had tried to draw a gun there's a good chance it wouldn't have gone the same way.

But, here is a study that shows that gun ownership independently increases the chance of homicide:

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199310073291506

Although firearms are often kept in homes for personal protection, this study shows that the practice is counterproductive. Our data indicate that keeping a gun in the home is independently associated with an increase in the risk of homicide in the home.

Originally posted by Bardock42
And you seem to always have a personal anecdote that explains your stance even though it's contrary to statistical analysis and expert opinion...

I don't know what you're talking about, here. On this particular topic, theft is almost always a non-violent crime.

However, robberies, by definition, involve force (whether it be threats or a real force used) and/or a deadly weapon. Even then, I'm fairly certain robberies are, a majority of the time, an injury free crime.

I could have missed the boat entirely, AGAIN, and I don't understand what you two are talking about. But I'd rather stick to real facts and stats instead of getting stuck in loops of shit slinging.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't know what you're talking about, here. On this particular topic, theft is almost always a non-violent crime.

However, robberies, by definition, involve force (whether it be threats or a real force used) and/or a deadly weapon. Even then, I'm fairly certain robberies are, a majority of the time, an injury free crime.

I could have missed the boat entirely, AGAIN, and I don't understand what you two are talking about. But I'd rather stick to real facts and stats instead of getting stuck in loops of shit slinging.

What I am saying is that a victim drawing a gun in a robbery vastly increases the chance of the victims death or injury. Judging from our agreement that robberies are usually an injury free crime, I think we probably agree on that as well.

Originally posted by dadudemon
But I'd rather stick to real facts and stats instead of getting stuck in loops of shit slinging.

Didn't you know Bardock and me have a set time every morning to act our part in a German shizer video? Usually I throw the first shit.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I just returned your blanket statement in the same vein. What we know for sure from your personal anecdote is that you survived. And that's the important thing. If you had tried to draw a gun there's a good chance it wouldn't have gone the same way.

But, here is a study that shows that gun ownership independently increases the chance of homicide:

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199310073291506

I'm not going to count the New England Journal of Medicine as a credible source for a discussion about self defense and guns, since when did Doctors become a source for this discussion. I might as well ask the ant hill outside what their stance on raid is.

What peer reviewed journal would you prefer your studies to be published in?