Originally posted by Selenial
Revan's honestly a Consular, there's a lot of evidence for it.Not that it means anything, Shaak Ti was a Consular and she's a masterful duelist.
Old Republic Encylcopedia disagrees with you actually
He was either a Guardian or Sentinel if that "Notable Jedi Knights" entry in the thing means much to you.
Well, Revan's a Knight by SWTOR's definition, so he's either a Guardian or Sentinel based on that (unless, of course, he never progressed). Seeing as Revan had wielded a blue blade in his Jedi training up to the Mandalorian Wars, and also in Duron Qel-Drom'a vision of him slaying Malak, it's likely that he was a Guardian. His feats and descriptions just fit that notion more than a Sentinel (frankly, Revan as a Consular makes more sense than Revan as a Sentinel).
Not that any of this matters, considering that when you get to high-tier Jedi who've fought plenty of opponents, a Consular could be a very skilled duelist just as a Guardian could be a very considerable Force wielder.
Originally posted by SunRazer
No, she wasn't, and Soresu was a factor in that IMO.
True enough. Alright, I seemed to have not articulated my words, so let me try again
What i am saying, is that when Luminara and Ventress first engaged, Luminara was able to observe her foes style and deduce that she fought with Dooku's form prior she got injured and thus, when there was a break in combat, Luminara was able to say what she said.
Is that clear? I'm not being sarcastic, i'm genuine curious if you understood this or if I'm confusing you even further.
That's because the game some cut content out and changed things after the Guide was released/the Guide never changed them back.
The game cut a lot of things, this is a fact, but even in the Prima Guide they mention Lonna Vash's passing is mentioned in the comic, so obviously they had time to change things.
Kreia actually states in her TP lesson to the Exile that she can defeat Vrook by using allies. Again, a post-guide change.
I just watched the scene and she says nothing of the sort.
Not as good as the other one, tbh.
True enough, still, his barrier is there and it's pretty solid. Unlike Meetra he's got showings with it.
What the heck does Grievous have to do with Galen's Pushes? And Shaak didn't do particularly well against Grievous anyway.
Galen was sent flying and kept down by Shaak's Force Blast. Galen has survived to tankown brutal TK, which even during the beginning of career was impressive, as he was able to throw a Tie Fighter with pure ease and could throw people so hard that computer panels and walls broke. Yet despite having his own Telekinesis redirected at him, he got up and kept fighting Kota, where as in his fight with Ti he was in a complete daze.
I mentioned Grievous in regards to Ti using her TK on him on Hypori and Corsucant. My apologies for not being clear.
Fightsaber states that any practitioner of Juyo is a high-level master of multiple forms. Atris is a practitioner of Juyo, so regardless of whether or not she mastered Juyo, she's a high-level master of at least two other forms.
Yes, I know this. She is a master of other forms, but what they are is unknown to us correct? And we don't really have enough material on Atris to correctly deduce what her forms were, yes?
In any case. Meetra brings nothing new to this fight that Shaak hasn't already faced.
Shii-Cho is taught to all Jedi and they are expected to know it by heart as per the Jedi Path.
Makashi is among her known forms and her grace with it is compared to Dooku's
Soresu she had no problem countering when she was pit against Starkiller.
Ataru she knows
Djem So is noting going to bring her down when her own strength is more so impressive than what Meetra has.
Niman is likely among her known forms given her incorporation of Force blasts(as scene during the Siege of Brontaal IV and the 1st and 3rd attacka on Kamino)
And she had no problem dueling Starkiller, an expert on Juyo.
So, i don't see Meetra bringing anything against Shaak in a duel.
She was also supposedly a rival of Mace and Obi-Wan as a swordsman, which obviously isn't the case.
Let's be real here. Nova. One her fight with Grievous was when he had every advantage possible and in her fight with Starkiller, she did incredibly well despite the fact that she was out of battle for several years. She may not be as powerful or skilled, but for what she has, she's pretty good and in my humble opinion, better than Meetra
Yes, it was.
So you presume to know what i was thinking? Please, Nova, you're no Charles Xavier.
You either neglected to mention it because you didn't know about it, or intentionally neglected it because you wanted to make her look impressive. Otherwise, why wouldn't you mention her one combat feat, and a notable one at that?
Beating the same person she trained in combat and having more known abilities than Brianna isn't as impressive as you make it out to be.
Brianna defeated her sisters easily, yes true. However, they're armed with quarterstaffs, have never encountered a jedi weapon or even a Jedi foe before and never saw battle, while Brianna did in her travels with the Exile and grew stronger.
I didn't neglect it, i knew of it, but it's not an incredible feat, it's a decent feat, but again it hardly compares.
Which isn't at all relevant to my point of Atris stalemating Brianna.
You mentioned Brianna's speed to make Atris seem more impressive, i'm stating that there's an obvious reason why a force sensitive is able to move faster than normal beings.
You can keep lobbing the red herrings up and I'll keep knocking them back down. I never said anything about rank equals power, but the quote in the Shadow Hand entry specifically states she's second only to Nihilus, lol.
the Shadow hand doesn't mention her at all by name dude. Even so, we don't see anything stating how skilled or powerful in the Force Visas is.
We know that she was capable of combatively defeating them, which is what matters.
Really? You're leaving an awful lot of information out, then.
Hey, give me credit, I haven't played the game in over a year.
Visas has already displayed resistances to Nihilus' Drain on Katarr,
Oh, I've converted another one. Awesome.
and Mandalore probably didn't even register to Nihilus if the hype about him is even remotely accurate.
We don't really know that though do we?
What they taught her =/= what they know.
Based on what? There is nothing supporting you on that, except your own theory.
It's entirely possible and more likely that they knew all of it and only taught the Exile specific techniques based on her class/order of planets
Yeah, a class we know absolutely nothing of, Nova.
Again, what she knows, is entirely dependent on how the player customizes her character.
The argument can be made that she could be a consular due to this or that, but that doesn't change the fact that what she knows, is entirely dependent on the corresponding prestige classes as well, Nova. Classes that our player's choice, yet another game mechanic.
(a mechanic you also overlooked, but regardless, it doesn't stop their knowledge of various forms from being canon).
My bad.
I'm talking about drastic power contradictions, obviously. I would've thought that anybody would innately recognize that the DS storyline would have story differences to the LS storyline.
Yet you except some quotes from this drastically changed, non-canonical story and recognize them as a show of power for the Exile in your respect thread, despite the fact, that feat itself contradicts the Legend continuity story of the Jedi Exile and Kotor 2 itself. Because, in this dark side version of Meetra, the power change is astronomical seeing as she's made up to be a second, Nihilus.
Either way you word it, Nova. when you're accepting the Dark Side choices, you're accepting the Non-canonical version of a story.
That's relative to the strength of his opponent.
True enough, however Starkiller has only ever trained with Vader, and Vader was described as harsh.
Survived what onslaught?
He fought Vader prior to ANH iirc.
That doesn't explain your stance on Proxy. How is Proxy better than Sion, especially since the Exile beat him repeatedly on one of the most powerful dark side nexuses in the galaxy.
Aside from dueling Vader for a decent amount of time as his Obi-Wan Module?
Also, just how powerful that made Sion is unknown, Nova. all we do know is that he's able to resurrect. That's it.
That has nothing to do with skill.
I know it doesn't, i'm clarifying that Starkiller completely eviscerated Kazdan, with Telekinesis.
And Paratus isn't notably powerful unless I missed something, though his construction of the junk warriors is pretty solid. Not particularly impressive as a showing of power, though, more like mastery. And please don't mention Vader stating Paratus is far more powerful than Galen as evidence of Paratus' power.
Eh, he's decent. And don't worry, i know how easy to counter that, and inaccurate .
Kazdan isn't particularly notable in skill or power anyway.
eh, true enough
We can agree to disagree if you would like to. As it stands, the Exile is probably slightly more skilled than Shaak and has a number of unique traits/versatility to offer her the slight edge.
Alright, Nova, even if where to agree with the notion that Meetra knows all lightsaber forms. This would still be my response.
As i said before, Meetra brings nothing to the table as a duelist that Shaak hasn't already seen in, arguably, better duelists. That's a fact.
While arguably there is a disparity in augmentative ability. I doubt that makes much of a difference, when we've seen great force augmentative abilities from Shaak Ti.
Although, I do like that at the very least, I've been able to get you from "Shaak Ti goes down in a duel." to "Meetra is only probably slightly more skilled than Shaak." Which is nice.(not boasting, i'm being 100% genuine here)
Also, i've placed on attachment that shows the Shadow Hand section in the KOTOR CG.